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Harman manual low-burn.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by TheMightyMoe, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. subsailor

    subsailor Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,422
    Loc:
    Winthrop, Maine
    I running my P61 in room/manual and I haven't used anywhere near a ton a month with the temps we've had so far.

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  2. Chain

    Chain Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    285
    Loc:
    Lewis County, New York (upstate)
    I run my P61A in room temp. manual and have yet to even try the stove temp. method. I have tried room temp. auto and found that the stove was constantly powering down and then reigniting within a few minutes. So for the sake of the ignitor, I've opted to run in room temp manual even if it burns more pellets.

    I did make the mistake of not doing my usual bi-weekly thorough cleaning a few weeks ago and then allowed the stove to run out of pellets. When I got home that night from work and refilled the hopper, I couldn't get the stove to light in auto as I had neglected to clean out the area that houses the ignitor in the burn pot. When it finally hit me that it was probably full of ash and thus not getting hot enough, I cleaned it out and wham o. the stove lit in no time. So a word of caution if you run your Harman in room manual constantly; always remember to clean out the ignitor area as should the stove shut down after a very lengthy burn for some reason (like running out of pellets or a power outage) it may have difficulty relighting as the ash build up in that area could hamper the effectiveness of the ignitor.
  3. Hoot23

    Hoot23 Minister of Fire

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    Mar 28, 2012
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    Loc:
    Alfred, Me
    X 2
  4. exoilburner

    exoilburner Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Messages:
    425
    Loc:
    NW Washington State
    Room Temp, Manual here.
  5. Outerlimits

    Outerlimits Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    119
    Loc:
    West MI
    room temp. manual here too with feed rate at 3.5.
  6. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    W Michigan
    Or, you can leave the 1 degree swing (which is actually +/- 1)(I use 2 degree swing or +/- 2) and turn your feed rate down a bit to lengthen the heat on cycle time. It's been in the 20's and I have a setting of 2.5 with Somersets. Yes, I am limiting the capability of my stove in a sense, but I have no problem maintaining temp in my speciffic situation.

    Either way, for me, during the heating season, Room Temp manual with Skytech driving the bus and I couldn't be happier. I also believe a warm stove is more efficient, so auto doesn't cut it for me. That and the fact that your house is ALWAYS losing heat, the pellets your stove uses while idling does help to curb the heat loss so your are getting a benefit for the pellets that are being consumed. It will also require pellets to rewarm the stove, so all things need to be considerend before you assume that "extra pellets" is actually wasted heat.

    PS - The way Harman uses the probe to control temp is simple +3 logic. Stove has a set temp based on your dial setting, lets say 70. When the probe temp reaches 73 after trying to modulate the flame as low as possible, it will initiate stove shutdown unless the room temp drops below 70 during the shutdown process. Since I care not to fiddle with the 1990's probe technology, I use the Skytech to give precise and repeatable temp control.
  7. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    549
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska.
    The reason I made this post was because in my specific climate, I do not think manual mode with a OAK is a good idea.

    My problem is in manual mode, the distribution fan isn't even on, and the stove is just pouring in -40 degree cold air, which just makes the stove feed constantly to maintain heat, that is just going out the flue. So pellets do not curb heat loss, and the stove get is just barely warm to touch.

    In auto it will run the distribution fan, until the temperature drops in the stove. Energy from the stove is put into the room. Then the unit shuts down. Mucho pellets saved.

    Also the majority of the time, there are still hot coals in the stove, that re-start the fire in no time. The distribution fan is on within a minute of calling for heat.
  8. exoilburner

    exoilburner Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2008
    Messages:
    425
    Loc:
    NW Washington State
    You sure about this? Here is what my Harman PF100 manual says:

    When the Switch is set to Manual-Lite in the
    “AUTOMATIC” mode, the Wall Control will function
    as in Auto-Lite except the fire will not be allowed to go
    out. It will only be allowed to go to a minimum burn rate
    between the times the Wall Control is calling for heat.
  9. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    W Michigan
    Are you talking about "stove temp or room temp manual"? My distribution fan works no different on auto vs. manual...when it room temp, just that the dist blower shuts off when the stove is at idle temperature.

    I think Eric already addressed the issue of an OAK in extreme cold = not advised.

    If you think you are saving mucho pellets on auto, go for it. We have different opinions, but neither can be proved without testing that only manufacturers would have the time and ability to pull off. I've oven thought it would be cool to build a shed inside a cold storage building where the temperature and humidity was always the same. That's really the only way to prove out all our assumptions.

    However, to put a different spin on it, I have Selkirk DT Pellet and this is and OAK and exhaust in one. The OAK air ends up getting heated by the internal exaust pipe. Granted it's not bitter cold yet, but in low 20's my intake air just before the back of the stove is about 120 degrees! All last year, zero frost or condensation. When I had the traditional oak setup, the aluminum pipe from the wall to the back of the stove would frost over as you mentioned.

    But, in this case, we are talking about insuring that the stove is operating properly and not as much about energy savings, since that's hard to quantify. If you remove the oak, that -40 air will make its way in one way or another to replace the air that is being exhausted.
  10. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    466
    Loc:
    W Michigan
    I was describing Room Temp Auto. The description you provided is for Room Temp Manual. PF might call "automatic" what we call "room temp". Not completely sure as I don't have a PF. :)
  11. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    549
    Loc:
    Fairbanks, Alaska.
    Are you talking about "stove temp or room temp manual"? My distribution fan works no different on auto vs. manual...when it room temp, just that the dist blower shuts off when the stove is at idle temperature

    That's the key difference. If I could force the Harman to idle a little bit more, with the distribution fan running in manual mode, that would be perfect. As it stands, when it idles, it barely maintains the ESP temperature(Stove doesn't stay warm), and doesn't really add heat to the home. So, I'm stuck in auto for the time being.

    I wanted to try Selkirk, but decided against it, due to condensation risks, and my venting is already cold/condenses outside as it is. (The last foot that sticks out, the rest is clean)

    I think our opinions are the same.

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