Harman P35i, Harman Accentra Insert, or Quadra Fire Santa Fe Insert

[cfiguy]

Hello all:

Found a lot of helpful information on this site, and have taken a lot of information in. We are finally deciding to convert our existing pre-fab wood burning fireplace into a pellet insert. We looked at gas, but the installation costs were very high due to our gas line location and needing to upgrade our gas system to a higher pressure system. And, I can't start a wood fire to save my life, although I think that it is due to green wood, as when I was younger I had no problems starting fires in the fireplace.

Our home is a small colonial style home built in the early 1980s, approx 1800-2000 sq ft total (basement included), so about 600-650 sq ft per floor. The fireplace is on the main floor, and the main floor's floor plan is pretty open. I would basically plan for the insert to heat the main floor, and be grateful for any residual heat that made its way upstairs.

I have been to a few dealers in the area, and I am between the stoves listed above. I really liked the Harman's (first stoves I saw), but wanted to see some other ones. I went to a total of three stores, and the two manufacturers listed above seemed to have good representation here with the dealers actually doing the install (not subcontracted). So, looking for opinions on the three. In terms of price, the Santa Fe is about $1000 cheaper than the P35i, and the Accentra is about $600 more than the P35i. Interested in hearing opinions about operation, cleaning, maintenance, and anything else you think might be helpful.

Also, one quick install question... The dealer mentioned for pre-fab fireplaces, the install options were either to put the insert up on a box, or to cut the firebox so the insert can sit on the floor, but the fireplace can never be used as a wood burning fireplace again. Cost is same either way. What are your thoughts?

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[summit]

If you go w/ the Harman, spring for the accentra insert. The heat exchanger is more aggressive, it is capable of a higher output, and looks way nicer. The 35i is a price point... usefull because of the patented Harman feeder, but no accordian heat exchanger, the ashpan is not as convienent, and not as pretty. I'd tell you to go with it any other year when price is a big consideration, but there is high stock of pellet units everywhere this year, and the extra 600 is easilly covered by the tax credit.

 

[LIpelletpig]

I'd go with the accentra. It has enough BTU to provide the space you're looking to heat. I also would way on the dealer reliability. Service, how long in business, knowledgable, service techs...Also take in to consideration on upkeep and maintaining the stove. With an insert you'll have to pull the stove out of the fireplace at least once per year for routine maintenance. Yes, I am bias with Harman and especially the Accentra because I have one myself but if I had to do it again I would get the same stove! Going on year three now, if you treat it right it will bring many warm nights by the fire.

 

[cfiguy]

Thanks for the responses. I was inclined to go with Harman anyway, based on reviews and just from what I saw. Any opinions on the install - pedestal versus cutting the existing firebox to place unit on floor. Thanks again

 

[skidozer]

On the Install- I just went through the same thing. I bought a quadra fire castile insert. used.

My manufactured fireplace would never burn, it would go out after the firestarters did. I have a small ranch built in the early 80's for electric heat so its pretty tight. It would only burn with the window open at least 4".
So to me it was useless, I was told I could do same as u cut floor out or build a box under the front.

I hated everything about my setup so I removed the manufacured fireplace and my hearth and fake brick one pice panels.

Im glad I removed it because the previous owner never sealed the pipe properly so there was water damage and mold to remove. It set me back a couple weeks and a few extra unplanned bucks but my house now smells much better.

I raised my hearth with a 2x10 platform so its not flush with floor, tiled that with a slate look tile and will be putting stone veneer on that looks like dry stack fieldstone.
Im in process of cleaning the stove real good right now and putting in new pipe should be ready to fire next week.

I gave my neighbor the firebox and exhaust pipe in trade for a small rubber roof job.

 

[forya]

I went through the same thing as you, I went with the Accentra insert, and love it. I had the old firebox cut out, my hearth was slate and already at floor level so that part was easy. My install was about $1000 with the stainless insert all the way up the chimney.

 

[forya]

And my Harman Accentra heats my 2000 sq ft house (2 stories) entirely I didn't run my heat pump once. The only problem is my finished basement, which I take care of with a space heater when we go down there.

 

[Old-Duckman]

And my Harman Accentra heats my 2000 sq ft house (2 stories) entirely I didn't run my heat pump once. The only problem is my finished basement, which I take care of with a space heater when we go down there.

Your situation sounds very similar to mine. My Accentra is scheduled to be installed tomorrow.

What was your pellet usage last year?

I also have a heat pump w/electric auxilary heat. Knowing that electricity is due to increase in 2011 and the fact that the tax break is available this year and may not be next year, I thought it a good time to get the insert. I had been looking at then for a couple of years. I am having 1 ton delivered with the unit and want to see how much space it will take up in my basement. If I have more room, I will get another ton soon...If not, I guess I'll buy 'em as I need 'em.

 

[cfiguy]

Well, I did a 180, and actually decided to go with the Santa Fe. Primary reason was pricing, but not just cost of the unit, but additional costs from the installers from Harman. There were delivery charges in addition to install, which most didn't seem to have. It also seemed that these places charged a higher install price and full retail price for the insert versus other locations which were cheaper on labor and other costs. For the Quadra Fire products, there were certain installers who were guilty of the delivery charge fees, but most seemed a lot more fair. One install question, as I have three competitive quotes, but am not sure what to do. One company said that they would line a few feet (4-8) up the chimney and then it would be fine as it is under 25 feet. This didn't sound right to me, but I am not a stove installer. Just seemed odd no one else mentioned this and everyone else said full reline. Thanks

 

[tjnamtiw]

I did full reline on both of mine although the manual DOES show what you describe as long as they install a sealing plate at the smoke shelf. The only problem might be the draft. Very little heat going up a very large (comparatively) flue wouldn't create as much draft. Someone on here also complained of creosote buildup at the top of their chimney, although it seems unlikely. You could try it and if necessary, later add additional pipe to the top and cap it off.

 

[Nicholas440]

I have a Quadrafire Castile insert, and originally it was installed with just 7 foot of flex vent, which went up through a plate we made to block the damper opening. The plate fit very snug and was caulked all around to seal it. However although this method worked, every so often I would get a woof of smoke on very cold days upon startup. The insert worked very well, but I just didnt see what the people here refer to as a "dancing" flame, when you have a really good draft your fire will literally dance up and down so to speak, and the flame will be extremely bright in color almost a yellow white kind of color.

Well, I ran it one season this way and talked to the dealer about this woofing of smoke, not a lot just a small puff would appear behind the insert so I had no idea where it came from, or if it was blown back down around the block off plate we made for the damper opening. The dealer then told me it was most likely due to a large volume of cold air in the chimney liner which is heavy, and the combustion blower may have had a hard time on start up pushing all this heavy air up and out, or it just woofed back down somehow. So I had him come back out and put in a full flex vent all the way up which is only 18 feet. I'm very happy to say the smoke poofing vanished, and my draft increased tremendously, and I see a noticeable difference in the flame. I now get a beautiful whiteish yellow flame that swirls and actually has a nice rumble, to it and this shows me its really drawing nicely up the vent pipe, where as before it had to be pushed all the way up inside that chimney liner which is something like 8 x 8 inches or 8 x 13 I'm not positive on dimensions.

Do yourself a favor and run a full vent all the way up and have a rain cap put on it. You wont be sorry because you'll have a very nice fire going.

 

[LIpelletpig]

Full reline...20+ feet

 

[tonyd]

I sold a quad castile and replaced it with a accentra . Never looked back.

 

[camdids]

I'm into my third season with the Accentra Insert. Never been more happy. Heats my Two story home fine. I had to have a full Liner done (27ft from Stove to Chimney Top) , 4inch Liner.. Tried the Dealers Recomendation of 5 feet up through the Damper area and Pack, but just got Smoke Smells. 8*13 tile Liner in chimney. Runs great. Only drawback I have is I havent Got to install an OAK. With My Chimney, I cant decide the best and Cheapest way to go. So far I've spent over $3000 on Chimney Issues since getting the Stove.( Not all to do with the Stove mind), so any more has to be worth It.

 

[tallen4392]

I also have an accentra insert ... I was also thinking of installing an oak the way harman says to with the pipe halfway up chimney. Anyone do it like this and how does it work that way.... thanks

 

[cfiguy]

Scheduled my install for the Santa Fe. Should be in the house in three weeks. We are going with the full install with regards to the reline. Installer recommended the Santa Fe over the Castle Bay given our heating area

 

[imacman]

Don't forget....after the install, we need pics, or it really didn't happen! :lol:

 

[cfiguy]

Installed today, and am glad that a professional installed it. It took him about 3-4 hours with a helper. He said that putting an insert in a masonry fireplace was easy, but these prefab fireboxes were a different story. Looks nice, and enjoying it so far. It is the old version of the Santa Fe, but I don't notice any differences. Will post pics tomorrow.

First delivery of pellets was Power Pellets. Seem to be running fine, and the no delivery charge and them stacking it in my garage only made it more sweet.

 

[cfiguy]

Well, I would include a photo today, but already troubleshooting. Call is in to the installer, but thought that I would hit up the experts on this board as well to see if anyone else could give their opinion. So here is the deal:

After hitting reset button, hopper feeds pellets and ignition process starts like normal. FYI - I hit reset button after waking up this morning seeing unit calling for heat, and waiting an hour to see if it would start. It does sounds a little more drafty or vacuum like sound than it did initially. I did open and reseal the front door to see if that would help, but sounds the same. Flame also seems to be pushed a lot more than yesterday, versus free flowing. Blower does kick on after about 5 mins. About five mins after that (with red light calling for heat still on), shutdown process begins (pellets stop feeding, etc). Only way to get it to start again is by reset button. I have left it alone for a few hours in between. If it makes a difference, the internal blower (not the one that pushes the air into the main room) seems to stay on for quite a while. I would say a good 10 mins after the external blower shuts off.

If anyone has any other questions, please let me know. Thanks for your help.