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Harman P38 Install in corner

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Joe and Kelly Tomeno, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    I have a Harman P38 Pellet Stove (from 1997 mnufacture date), We just purchased a new home ( built 1900) and I am having a hard time finding a location suitable for the install. My best location is a corner in our middle room. Only 1 wall borders the outside of the home with 2 windows. I would like to install the stove in a corner but the only clearance to the vent pipe ( 3 inch simpson duravent) I am talking the wall thimble location is 12 inches to the CENTER of the chimney pipe and only 8 inches to the edge of the wall thimble. Harman suggests a 12" clearance to the vent....Is that measurement from the edge of the wall thimble or the center of the pipe or edge of the pipe? (from a corner of the wall).

    Thanks.

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  2. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Do you have the installation manual for your stove? Is the correct version of the manual available for download and if so where so I can be on the same page as far as what the stove manual says.

    The venting itself is likely to require only 3" or 1" clearance to combustibles so this has to be a stove clearance thing.

    All clearances are measured from the combustible to the nearest surface of the stove or vent surface.
  3. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    If you are referring to "G" under clearances in the manual, it is to the edge of the thimble. 12" from the edge of the thimble to the wall.
  4. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    2012-11-13_10-01-41_314.jpg
  5. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    That G is for the outside of the house inside corner vent outlet.
  6. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    OK. Confused by the OP description. Looks like "F" applies then.....although what's shown in the drawing doesn't match the description :/
  7. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    Is the op talking about the outside at all.

    A corner install into a corner that has only one outside wall is not the same as even F on the outside would require.

    Think a room corner with an interior wall. There could be literally feet of clearance all around on the outside.
  8. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Then wouldn't G apply in this case?

    Totally confused. No coffee. Out of it.

    Bowing out of this one boys :)
  9. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    We have to know what the corner actually looks like both inside and outside the house to give the proper answer.

    Vent terminations have their own set of clearances and that is what all of those clearances are about on that page outside vent terminations not interior vent runs.
    P38X2 likes this.
  10. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    I have the manual for the stove...Yes that picture is what I have...I was worried about the cleaance on an inside wall...there is no corner on the outside...by the installation site. So then the "G" is referring to an outside corner? If so, then I am ok to install my Harman P38 where I want to. I wanted to put it there because of an electrical outlet in the other wall And I want the clean out "T" to be on the outside of the wall. How much vent pipe do you think I would need for enough updraft on the outside above the clean out "T".

    This was installed in our old home but our new one is much smaller, older and floor plan is different....I just lacking the end cap.....whcih kind would I need if the pipe comes out of the wall and goes up? A horizantal end cap or a top cap?

    Thanks for all the advice.
  11. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Coffee kicked in. I agree with you Smokey.

    The OP should post a pic of the outside wall for a definitive answer.

    As far as the interior, as long as stove clearances are met, the only issues for you would be clearances to wall studs, wiring and plumbing.
  12. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    I think the "G" is the inside view of the corner.....I do not have a corner in that location on the outside....Its a straight wall....
  13. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Assuming ground and sidewalk (etc) clearances are met, you can get away with the straight out vent style. An OAK should mitigate any smoke issues during a power failure. It's the simplest, cheapest and easiest method.
  14. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Horizontal cap. Even with a vertical run outside your house, you must first have a 90 Degree elbow to bring the run to horizontal & then add the cap. There are distances from the outside wall to the end of the cap that also have to be maintained...
  15. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    What thimble are you using? The Harman thimble is pretty slick and incorporates an OAK in the design.
  16. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    What is an OAK design?
  17. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    Do you mean an outside air connection? I didnt use one at my old place....wasnt planning on it here but may just put one in...I am more concerned about the inside corner clearence to the thimble....I want to keep the clean out "T" on the outside of the house and not the inside...confusin I know...

    I have the regular dura vent thimble with the 3 " opening in center.....no extra opening for air flow...
  18. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    The Harman thimble has the pass through for the pellet vent and another hole to hookup your OAK. It pulls air from the outside of the thimble directly above the pipe. There's a little rain roof thing to keep out water.

    I'm at work so I can't send a pic. Do a search. You may like it a lot.

    There's not many that aren't gonna tell you an OAK is a good thing.

    Again, my vote is for the horizontal straight out approach. No clean out.
  19. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    Is the horizantal straight out venting better than onethat goes up on the outside? Wouldnt a clean out at the bottom be beneficial ?
  20. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    A vertical run in the venting of a pellet stove isn't always necessary as the exhaust is positive pressure. It's essentially power vented and doesn't require natural draft to aid in the removal of exhaust gasses. I believe some stove manufacturers require some vertical run though.

    If you didn't have ground clearance or had some obstruction you needed to clear then, yes, you'd want a vertical section. Also, say you had a deck or patio around the corner. It would help keep the smoke clear of that area. Pellet stoves shouldn't really produce acrid smoke so it's usually not an issue.

    If you only had a horizontal run, the clean out T becomes unnecessary. You'll be using a vent brush and a shop vac or leaf blower from the outside to clean it when necessary.

    Here's the Harman thimble from the outside. I opted not to use J channel as it's on the back of the house and is 100% watertight by the use of the cool NASA approved caulking.

    2012-11-13_14-50-02_312.jpg
  21. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Here's the inside with integrated OAK. 2012-11-13_15-07-09_204.jpg
  22. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    I see your point...My problem is that the only place I can install my stove there is an electrical outlet directly behind where a thimble would be place....So thats the reason for needing or utilizing a clean out "T" on the inside of the home.....
    The option to install in the corner doesnt leave enough clearence between the inside corner and thlmble...instead of 12 " minimum there is only 8 ".
    So I have to install between 2 (non opening) windows with proper clearence between them for installation of thimble.

    Thanks
  23. Joe and Kelly Tomeno

    Joe and Kelly Tomeno Member

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    Your 2nd picture shows the thimble installed awfully close to an inside wall corner..am I correct?
    Harman manual requires a 12" clearance between thimble and an inside corner. Thats is what my concern is....I need to get this inspected and approved by our town -code enforcement and I dont want to have to move it and reinstall and create more holes...especially since i am doing this next month in the cold of december.
  24. Delta-T

    Delta-T Minister of Fire

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    all of the clearances listed on that diagram are for the exhaust vent termination, not for the wall thimble on the inside of the house. you have no minimum clearance from the inside section of the wall thimble to anything. make sure to maintain clearances from the stove to the wall and from the pipe itself to the wall, but nothing to worry about fromt he wall thimble perspective.
    P38X2 likes this.
  25. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Like Smokey and Delta-T said, those are exterior vent clearances.

    The edge of the thimble to the wall is about 1". To the center of the vent is approx 8".

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