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Harman PF100 Igniter

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Ejectr, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    Shut my furnace down today to clean it. First time it hasn't had a flame going in it in 2 months. I cleaned it out, went to start and it wouldn't start. Tried a power off/on reset and still nothing. Had all the right lights and right things happening but wouldn't start. Opened the door and felt the burn pot. Stone cold. Have a combustion fan light...power light...status light...auger feed light with pellets feeding and igniter light. Obviously a bad igniter.

    I'm assuming I have the regular fin type igniter and not the pressure igniter because my furnace was built in 2008. I didn't pull it out. Just started it manually with starting jell. Can't mess with it now in the cold weather.

    Anyway...trying to get a warrantee replacement. My furnace was built in 2008 but sat on a showroom floor until August 2011 when I bought it, so the damn igniter is only 2 years old use wise and it really hasn't started that many fires.

    Couple questions...If I did get the pressure igniter, is it a direct replacement for the fin type? Can chiseling away the carbon on the burn pot break the igniter if you stab the carbon in the pot with force?

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  2. Mr. Spock

    Mr. Spock Minister of Fire

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    You may have an older 13 fin igniter which are known to fail quickly. The newer 15 fins are much more durable. Chiseling would create some vibration on the igniter but damage it...naw.
  3. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    What's involved in replacing the igniter on a PF100? Do you pull out the burn pot and it sits behind it or do you get it out from the back where the auger motor and board is located? If the burn pot comes out, any gaskets that have to be replaced because of removing the burn pot?

    I know I can do it. Just need to know how to approach it.
  4. bwep

    bwep Member

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    I had a 13 fin ignitor only lasted a year and a half. The new 15 fin has been in for 2 and a half years, definitly a better design. Stove has been taking longer to start lately....don't think this one is going to last much longer.
  5. Mr. Spock

    Mr. Spock Minister of Fire

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    There are two wing nuts that secure an access plate under the front of the burn pot. Losing those nuts , remove the plate and you will be able to access the igniter.
  6. wil lanfear

    wil lanfear Feeling the Heat

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    The first thing to try is to loosen the 2 thumb bolts on the front of the burnpot holding the inspection plate, this is where the finned igniter is located. It sounds like you have never cleaned this area out which will cause the igniter not to work.The igniter fins could be clogged with ash preventing air from passing through it to ignite the pellets.
  7. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    I clean that spot out every time I scrape the burn pot. It's usually got a little bit of like sand granules for ash in it. Only once when I first got the furnace did I not remember to clean that out and it wouldn't start. I clean it out all the time now and I do feel the igniter wires in there, but I never looked inside it. Actually, it looks like it would be pretty difficult to stick your head in there to see inside it.
  8. mcmaxx

    mcmaxx Member

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    There are two other screws on the front of the burn pot, not the wing screws, that need to be removed once you remove the plate this will allow you to gently pull the ignitor out, I say gently as to not break or damage the wires.
  9. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    Never noticed those screws and plate. Only the butterfly screws and the plate I take off to clean that area out, but I can't say I ever looked for those other screws and plate, either.

    Do the the wires have some type of push together connectors, or push and turn? I haven't got the new one yet to check it out.
  10. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    its the same igniter as is in all the harman units.....now a 15 fin igniter (as long as you dont have the pressure ignition unit)....and yes, it has 2 blade connectors....quite alot of instructions here on how to replace it!
  11. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    Can I safely say that it is the same procedure there are many posts about replacing it in an Accentra?
  12. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    that yo can, amigo
  13. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    OK....thanks!
  14. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    I have a dealer that filed a warrantee claim to get me a replacement igniter. They are telling me I need to return the bad one to Harman for testing within 30 days. I'm a bit sceptical of that but what can I do. They are helping me out.

    My question is can I run my furnace OK without an igniter being installed where the igniter usually is, because I will have to remove the bad one....send it to the dealer so he can send it back to Harman with the RMA paperwork for testing, then wait for my replacement to come in.

    Kind of makes me laugh. It's like Ford saying they want to see my bad cigarette lighter before they'll replace it under the warrantee. But I've come to expect it from Harman's customer service.
  15. wil lanfear

    wil lanfear Feeling the Heat

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    I'm wondering why this dealer can't test your igniter, it's either bad or it's not. If it's bad the dealer could give you a replacement and send yours back to Harman if they want it back. Whenever I've had warantee items that have failed ( many, many burnpots) I've never had to wait for my dealer to send it back to Harman before I got a new one. Something is not right.
  16. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    You're telling me...! I just need to know if I can run without one being in its place.
  17. wil lanfear

    wil lanfear Feeling the Heat

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  18. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    geez- I agree with Wil here....anyone can test the igniter...pull it out, run a multimeter across it......any continuity? Should be 40-50 ohms, the higher the better. I frankly dont see pulling the igniter and having it sent out to be tested...thats hokey, unless its a pressure igniter. Seems like alot of work for 100 bucks or so. Is the unit still under warrantee? Your date says 2011....2 years on electrical parts.

    Leaving you without an igniter, well, the dealer isnt helping you much at all.....and I question the dealer who cant test an igniter....the only thing I see here is maybe you arent talking to the right person at the dealership? I thought I knew most of the harman dealers in your area, and frankly, they are all pretty good.
  19. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    When I wrote to Harman about purchasing the furnace asking them if the warrantee would be good, they wrote back and said they would honor the warrantee in the manual. The manual says 6 years on parts and 3 years on labor. Doesn't say anything about 2 years on electrical parts. I'm still under warrantee even if it was.

    I know it's hokey and I had many back and forths with the dealer and he said ..."I've done all I can for you. Call Harman and talk to them yourself if you want."

    The dealer is not from anywhere near my area. Because I bought this furnace from a dealer on Martha's Vineyard that went out of business and got a floor model that was brand new for a song....the locals have sour grapes for it. Hey... if they were able to pick up a brand new PF100 for $2,150 with a full new warrantee, they would have done it, too.
  20. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    2011, right?

    http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/PF100.pdf (couldnt find a warrantee for 2011, but this is current)....see page 44, 3rd paragraph, 1st sentence...



    anyhow, so it seems its 3 years? Regardless of where you bought the unit, since the original selling dealer is out of business, Harman still needs to cover it.

    I can see the situation where a local dealer would charge you for a service call, since they didnt sell the unit. I can still imagine them claiming the igniter under warrantee tho, so, you would be responsible just for the service call.

    Also, another idea. maybe you pull the igniter out, bring it to the closest dealer, let them test it. I feel exceedingly confident that if you do this, AND bring them the serial number of your unit, that they will give you a replacement under warranty. They might have to call Harman, but its just a phone call. Most dealers stock igniters, assuming yours is the cartridge igniter and not the pressure unit. Maybe compliment them about how great they look that day, etc.....works for me, anyhow! Im telling you, it doesnt have to be as difficult as someone seems to be making it for you!

    Many dealers wont do other dealers' warranty work for free, but you can minimize this by doing most of the legwork yourself.
  21. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    You are correct. I re read my manual and it is 3 years on electrical parts. My error, but as I said...I purchased the furnace 8/11. I still have a year and 5 months left on my warrantee.

    I thought of doing what you suggested, but the sales girl in parts at the dealer I am working with said she has been notified by Harman that the igniter will be in their hands 3/14 and I have 30 days to get the bad one in Harman's hands. So if I go to another dealer and they call Harman...Harman's going to say....what's going on here. We already sent an igniter and been contacted about this serial number warrantee claim.

    It seems what's going on is, he wants me to buy an igniter from him. Then he will send me the RMA to send the bad igniter to Harman. He won't just give me one and wait for mine to get to him. Once he sends the igniter to Harman and gets the word from Harman that the igniter is bad, even though I have an electronic/electrical background and know what continuity does and doesn't look like, he will then credit my card I bought the new one on. I told him....let's do it this way. I take out the igniter and send it to you. You send me the new one and you send the bad one to Harman seeing you have the RMA paperwork. Then there is no charges or credits that need to be done to my account. He writes me back an email and says that Harman has to test mine first to make sure it's bad and then when he's sure they won't back charge his account, he will send me the new one so I could possibly be without an igniter "for a long time if I don't buy one from him".

    I don't know why he has to wait for Harman's say so that it is bad. It will be in his hands before he sends it to Harman. If he doesn't believe me, he can check it himself! But the fact he is mentioning RMA paperwork makes me believe Harman does indeed want the bad one back.
  22. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    Yes...I know I can start it manually with gel. When I say run the furnace without one...I mean can I run the furnace leaving the igniter out of where it would have been. Will there be a hole there that would prevent me from using my furnace? There will be no igniter mounted where it usually is and disconnected wires hanging.
  23. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    okok, is it a pressure igniter or a 13 fin cartridge igniter?
  24. Ejectr

    Ejectr Minister of Fire

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    13 fin cartridge, I'm assuming. I haven't taken it out yet. The furnace was built in 2008. I don't think they had pressure igniters then.
  25. dhall28

    dhall28 Member

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    if you have the 13 fin igniter they were known for wearing out prematurely, hopefully the new 15 fin igniter will last a lot longer for you. The only reasons i can think of that the dealer doesn't want to test your igniter and send it back is one they don't know how to test them (which would be bad but not beyond belief for some dealers) and second they don't want to have to pay for the shipping. I dont know for a fact but i believe dealer pays return shipping on warranty items, i know my office guy saves up a bunch of warranty items before sending them back as one large lump. although i could be wrong on the shipping. 75% of items returned for warranty to HHT (harman,quad,heatilator,etc) are STILL GOOD. so now they are offering trainings to dealers to try to get better techs that don't just throw parts at the stove. so the whole not getting paid for warranty is not true at all. One day they will implement warranty where you don't get paid unless justified but it hasn't happened yet.
    As far as the running the stove without the igniter that should not hurt a thing, i would put the bracket back in so as to close off the holes in the front of the pot for the screws that hold the igniter bracket, but other than that you can run the stove with out the igniter itself in the bracket and not hurt anything.

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