Harman TLC 2000 - Wood Burning Screen Question

Martin Strand III Posted By Martin Strand III, Jan 29, 2006 at 9:33 PM

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  1. Martin Strand III

    Martin Strand III
    New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
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    Hey Out There:

    The Harman Manual says the TLC 2000 is approved to burn wood "with the firescreen on" in the USA whereas our northern neighbors may burn wood in the same device as a "primary fuel" - screen off, door closed.

    My question: What's the difference and why? Is this an EPA issue?

    My experience is the stove does not get as hot with the screen on (door wide open); i.e., lots of air, maybe too much air. However, with the door closed, using the air intakes for wood to regulate the combustion air, the stoves really heats up - more like it does when burning anthracite.

    Any hypothesizers with hypotheses out there?

    Aye,
    Marty
     
  2. Corie

    Corie
    Minister of Fire

    Nov 18, 2005
    2,430
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    Loc:
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    Bingo. No secondary burn chamber means they can't tell you to burn it with the doors closed as a woodstove per say. Once the stove leaves the factory, Dane Harman doesn't know that you're going to burn it with the door closed like a regular old fashioned woodstove. Therefore he's in the clear.


    At least, that's the way I take it.

    I'm sure craig knows the concrete answer.
     
  3. Martin Strand III

    Martin Strand III
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    Nov 20, 2005
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    Loc:
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    Corie et al:

    Without a secondary burn chamber, with doors closed and burning wood "hot", does this mean the Harman TLC 2000, burning this way, increases particulate emissions to the pre-Phase II stove levels (50 Grams/Hr vs 6 Grams/Hr!)? Is this any different than burning the beast with the screen on for particulate emissions?

    Still not too clear here. Are particulates the reason?

    Aye,
    Marty

    Grandma used to say, "Non illegitimi carborundum."
     
  4. Corie

    Corie
    Minister of Fire

    Nov 18, 2005
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    Loc:
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    As far as particulate emissions go, with the door closed, you have the ability to make that stove burn as dirty as a pre EPA stove, or at least pretty dirty. I may be exaggerating, but without the secondary chamber or a cat, you certainly aren't meeting EPA emissions standards. But, if you're burning it hot, I doubt creosote accumulation would be very serious.

    As far as burning with the screen on, I imagine it will result in cleaner combustion only due to the fact that you have no limit over the air and won't be able to force the fire to smolder. I know that isn't your intention with the door open or closed so as long as your burning the stove hot with the door closed, I don't see it as being a huge problem.

    What i'm trying to say, and not doing a very job of it at all, is that they can't label this sucker a wood and coal stove because it would never make epa certification without a cat or secondary system. As far as I know, there are no EPA regulations for a free standing fireplace (I could be very wrong in this assumption) and by keeping this stove a dedicated coal burner with an optional screen for open door wood burning, Mr. Harman effectively skates around all EPA regulations.
     
  5. Martin Strand III

    Martin Strand III
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    Nov 20, 2005
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    So, we Harman TLC 2000 buyers ("The only stove you'll ever need. Stove of the Millenium.") bought a prehistoric polluter thinking, naively, we were getting state of the art (at least Phase II)?

    Arrggg,
    Marty
     
  6. Corie

    Corie
    Minister of Fire

    Nov 18, 2005
    2,430
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    Loc:
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    The way i'm interpretting eveerything, and from what I've seen of the stove in stores, yes.


    This is actually the exact problem I'm addressing right now in my own stove of the millenium.
     
  7. bruce

    bruce
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    Nov 20, 2005
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    buy the harman!!! what a great unit,,
    the screen is for the real fireplace look wich has no epa rules, the coal wood tlc 200 and the tl 200 both have the screens for the same reasons, only for looks and no heat
     
  8. Martin Strand III

    Martin Strand III
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    Nov 20, 2005
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    Loc:
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    Bruce baby:

    I have 'had' the Harman TLC 2000 for 3 winters now. Not a TL 200 (?)

    And, just now, due to the above, feel I wad "had".

    AAaarrrrggg,
    Marty
     
  9. Corie

    Corie
    Minister of Fire

    Nov 18, 2005
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    It's quite misleading in my opinion. Where can you find the TLC-200 on harman's website? Under the freestanding woodstove category of course. Is it certified to be a freestanding woodstove? Nope.
     
  10. bruce

    bruce
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    Nov 20, 2005
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    the tl 200 is the wood only version of the coal/ wood combo,,
    when i bought 2 dealers told me to pick one fuel and stay with it, thats why im on wood
     
  11. Corie

    Corie
    Minister of Fire

    Nov 18, 2005
    2,430
    1
    Loc:
    Halifax, VA
    Bruce, I've never heard of the Harman Exception being referred to as the TL-200 until right now. So that title is a new one on me as well.

    Regardless, that's what he's talking about Marty.

    Of course, the Exception features Harman's patented Afterburner Secondary Combustion System, something your TLC-2000 lacks.
     
  12. stovemanken

    stovemanken
    New Member

    Nov 30, 2005
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    TL-200 is Harman's internal designation for the Exception wood stove. Many dealers use the term as well.

    I strongly agree that you buy either the TLC-2000 because you want to burn coal or the TL-200 (Exception) if you want to burn wood.

    I also agree that since the TLC-2000 was sold with a hang tag that says "Coal-Only" it should be in the "Coal" section of the website.

    The TLC-2000 has never been sold as an EPA compliant wood stove, nor has the Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, the Elite Insert or the SF-250. They, like the TLC-2000, are "coal only" heaters.

    Can you burn wood in them? Sure, but not legally. You can burn wood in an open fireplace in most places, too. When the door is open, with the screen in place, the TLC is an open fireplace.

    If the dealer didn't tell you that, it was an oversight.

    BTW, "TLC" stands for Top Loading Coal.

    SMK
     
  13. FireJumper

    FireJumper
    Member

    Dec 14, 2005
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    Remember, for those of you that may live in Canada - The Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, Elite Insert and SF250 IS legal to burn wood in only because of the lack of EPA regulations.
     
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