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Harman XXV Buzzing

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by moog5, Jan 12, 2006.

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  1. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    I bought a brand new Harman XXV and since day 1 the distribution blower buzzes EXTREMELY LOUD. The dealer has been out 3 times to fix it. Replaced the blower once, tried other methods, and nothing works. I have posted elsewhere and others have contacted me stating they have the exact same issue. I called Harman Stoves and they tell me I have to go through the dealer. The dealer tells me they are waiting on Harman for a fix. Meanwhile I keep demanding (in writing) that they follow through with their so called "Gold Warranty" which states they will remedy defective items by either repairing or replacing.

    UPDATE 1/17/06 Buzzing finally fixed, see post on second sheet dated 1/17/06

    UPDATE 2/16/06 Buzzing returned

    UPDATE 2/26/06 No more buzz, see my post dated 2/26/06. Harman finally had one do it in their factory and designed a fix which was implemented to my stove yesterday. I am comfortable it worked for good this time. If not I will update this thread. So no more news is good news as far as I am concerned.

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  2. FireJumper

    FireJumper New Member

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    Their is a air jacket located above the blower that may be making this noise. Did the dealer take the blower out and try to adjust this air jacket to make sure it is far enough away from the wheel? You could also check the wires to the blower to make sure they are out of reach of the blower. Just some ideas.
  3. lime4x4

    lime4x4 Member

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    geez i thought i had issues with harman....I know exactly what your going thru
  4. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    Immediately after installing the stove, the wire hitting something was thought maybe to be the cause. This was part of the original trouble shooting they tried during the install which didn't work.

    1st visit by tech, nothing done as far as I know. They might have jiggled a few things, not sure, wasn't hear to watch. When I got home that night, the stove still buzzed.

    2nd visit by tech. Removed Dist Blower Housing, replaced blower Noise went away until that night, then noise returned.

    3rd visit, apparently Harman instructed tech to try and bend some piece of metal in the stove which was bent wrong during the first few fab runs at the factory. Per the dealers tech, they did this, but when I returned home that evening, the stove still buzzed when set over medium. I have a 4 meg avi movie, give me you email and I will send it to you if you want.

    Since my post above, I spoke directly to the Harman Rep. He will be out next week to install a gasket between the blower housing and the unit. The distribution blower mounts in a housing, which mounts up from the bottom of the stove. Adding this gasket is supposed to lower the housing and the blower enough so that whatever the blower is hitting (now thought to be the source of the noise) it won't hit it any more. Sounds logical, I will up date this post whatever happens. Until they fix this issue (and I will let everyone know) , until then I cannot recommend anyone buy the HARMAN XXV.

    Again, excuse me for expressing any frustrations I have, but three months of a buzzing $3,000 pellet stove is ridiculous, and so far the "Gold Warranty" isn't worth the value of the paper it was written on. Though they have been trying to fix it, as they haven't been able to (to date), they should just simply replace it with one that doesn't buzz (that is what the warranty says replace if repair doesn't work). Too bad their wasn't a lemon law for pellet stoves.
  5. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    Neutral observation here. It looks like the basics structural platform of Harmon's is sound, but the electronics and moving parts are not.

    Many folks seem to indicate that the Harmon's are built very well, and I noted in a previous post that a Harmon Mark I is over 350lbs whereas a Morso 1410 coal is more like 180lbs. But this thread and Lime's both point at the moving electrical related parts.
  6. lime4x4

    lime4x4 Member

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    Pete i know what your going thru.I myself spent 3K for a coal stoker that isn't working properly.When i talk to the dealer half the time it feels like i'm not getting no where.
    The dealer and harman basicaly have said the stove is malfunctioning due to my draft or my perception of how it works is wrong.Even thou there Manual clearly states a high burn is 3 feed dots
    This stove will only burn on 2 dots without pushing hot coal over the grates.Now i'm being told to ignore that part of the manual that's just there for an example.I know personaly people that have coal stoves i know what a high burn should feel like this stoker ain't even close. I know 4 people that have reading coal stokers that are rated lower btu then mine plus alot cheaper and they throw some serious heat.there getting 600 to 700 degree surface temps and they have a good 2 inch ashline before the end of the grates When mine gets that hot it's pushing off hot coals but i'm told it's just my perception.i guess it doesn't always pay to get the best..Keep us posted
  7. FireJumper

    FireJumper New Member

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    Where do you have the setting set at on the control box? What position do you have the restrictor plate on the combustion blower? In other words how far open to you have it?
  8. lime4x4

    lime4x4 Member

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    firejumper i pm'ed u..Don't want to hijake pete's thread
  9. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    Interesting issue on the XXV for sure. Ive got several out there, and have burned our floor model since September. I havent as yet had any buzzing from any units (guessing abt 15 units), or any other problems as well. Although I have had other buzzing units....usually turned out to be the black plastic combustion fan cover coming loose and making a heck of a racket. Heres a question.....did they remove the dist fan and jumper it and run it by itself, say in an outlet? If so, did it make noise then? Buzzing has to be either a loose part, a foreign item in the blower, or tranferred vibration (unbalanced blower?) Odd that the dealer hasnt really pressed the issue with Harman....I can imagine a buzzing could be a real pain. As I am sure youve guessed, we are a Harman dealer, and as one, you figure I am not going to admit to problems with the units.....not true. If there were a problem I would acknowledge it as well. Harman has had problems for sure. You most likely do have a defective unit, but nothing that is most likely "unfixable".....I think possibly the dealer or their tech hasnt exhausted all possibilities as of yet. Good luck with the unit!
  10. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    During their 2nd visit they replaced the blower as I watched. I didn't see them jumper it. I was going to suggest that, but figured I better keep my nose out of the techs business.

    With respect to the coal setting issue, I have no clue how coal stoves work, but with the feed rate adjuster setting on the XXV pellet stove, the owners manual had be go through a procedure to figure out what the appropriate feed rate adjuster setting was for the pellets I am burning. I believe it stated that typically a 4 setting works, I had to go down to 2 to maintain a 1" of ash.

    Harryback, don't get me wrong, the dealer has tried quite a few things to resolve this, but I feel like it is only because I have had to hound them over and over. Again, if it weren't for the buzzing I would really love this stove (I must have when I bought it, heck I shelled out $3k for it). Alot of the buy decision to buy had to do with my research on the warranty. It should not take 3 months of time to remedy the warranty problem.
  11. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    ok- new info-
    just received today info in fluttering or buzzing from my marketing rep for Harman....
    literature says to loosen and tighten the screws on the end of the distribution shroud....two of them, each side....when tight, this fixes abt 80% of the stoves.....otherwise, pry up on the outlet.....pretty tough to explain.....Id suggest getting with your dealer, hopefully they have received this advice as well. As I said, just got this today. good luck!
  12. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    Harry, thanks for the info.

    I think mine is the other 20%, because during their third visit (prior to Xmas), they pried up on something which according to the tech fixed it (at least until he left, but when I got home it still buzzed). My dealer put me in touch with their Harman Rep and the fix you are talking about sounds like what they told the dealer tech to do on their third visit. As that did not work, I must be the other 20% they are talking about. The Rep himself is coming over next week to install a gasket which as I stated above is supposed to lower the housing and the blower. Hopefully this gasket trick fixes this stove "the other 20%". If it doesn't they need to just ship it back to Harman and replace it with a new one. After all these attempts, I feel like if it does work, with my luck to date on this stove, it will work right up until the warranty expires.

    Again, all I want is a Harman XXV that works like it is supposed to.
  13. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    Today (1-17-06) the Harman Rep himself came to my home and worked on the buzzing noise coming from the distribution blower. It has only been about 1/2 day, but I am pretty confident this fix worked. He took the back panel off, as looking at it from the rear on the right side and immediately above the dist blower, he isolated the buzzing sound as eminating from the shroud immediately above the distribution blower. On the right side (as viewed from the back), there are two pieces of sheet metal (see photo attached) which I believe they call the shroud. The two sections overlap eachother and are attached by a sheetmetal screw. Their is a slight factory bend in these overlapping sections (I guess to help deflect the blower air up and into the heat exchanger. The Harman Rep (and myself after watching his method to isolate the sound) believe that the tip of this screw which joins these two sections of sheetmetal was just barely touching a piece of metal behind it (I believe a section of the the distribution blower housing). The fix the rep came up with was very simple, he wedged a small piece of stove gasket material immediately behind the this shroud where the screw was contacting whatever it was hitting. This was enough to keep the tip of screw from contacting metal behind it. With the dist blower at high, it apparently was enough to cause a high frequency resonant vibration, causing metal (the tip of the screw) to contact metal (I think part of the dist blower housing) and make the buzzing sound. Wedging the gasket material behind it apparently kept the screw from contacting the the metal behind it.

    After 4 visits, 3 by the dealer tech, and 1 by the rep himself, I think it is finally fixed as it hasn't buzzed all day. This stove now acts like a $3k stove should.

    I am now a happy camper. Thankyou Harman for standing behind your warranty. I now like this stove (ok' love this stove) as much as the fist day I saw it in the store. No more buzzing.

    Thankyou Harman for your extended efforts at resolving this issue. You can keep the term "gold" in your warranty.

    Attached Files:

  14. ColdinPA

    ColdinPA New Member

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    I do not understand why you were so down on Harman? Buzzing is a problem, no question about that. I am glad that the rep was able to solve your problem. But you just spent alot of time bashing Harman products. Now you quickly changed your key. Sounds like you are one of those people who screams and cries till they get what they want.
    Next time I have a problem with my Chevy truck, I am going on line and Bashing Chevy until it's fixed. then I will retract my statement once the dealer has become intelligent enough to service it. (Sarcasm)

    Let's all read this thread.
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/1035/

    Not trying to be overly negative toward you, but man......

    By the way, if you ever have a problem with the XXV again, before crying on a message board, please feel free to contact me. I will be happy to take it off your hands. I have a great dealer with a great service department. I will have no trouble with that I can assure you.
  15. lime4x4

    lime4x4 Member

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    coldinpa Is the fact that it takes so long to get something fixed or they just treat u like your an idiot..I have my own issues with a brand new harman coal stoker that's been on going for over 2 months now and it still isn't fixed yet. That's the problem in the nut shell we shell out all this money and half the time it's like they just don't care cause they got your money..And your comment about the chevy.Well i'm a certified chevy tech that works for a well established dealer.And we c alot of people with compliants about there vechiles but the thing is the problem is either fixed within a day or the cust is told how long till a fix is available.We keep incontact with the cust.Alot of dealers have the attitude that we will get to it when we get to it..Sorry that isn't right..When i first had problems with my stove i called the dealer. After 10 days i still didn't hear back from the dealer till i called again and i got the impression that the dealer just wanted me to go away...
  16. lime4x4

    lime4x4 Member

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    also if we attempt to repair a cust brand new vechile after 3 attempts for the same compliant the cust is intitled to have the vechile bought back
  17. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    Dear ColdinPA: I wish you would have posted earliar with your reply, I would have taken you up on your offer to trade my previously buzzing xxv for a brand new one that didn't buzz (..........did I read more into your offer than what you really mean, what did you mean?).

    Let me recap, here is why I was upset enough to air my frustration with my stove. I paid $3000 for a brand new pellet stove in August, the dealer installed it on 10/27/05. As soon as I plugged it in it buzzed. Dealer worked on it for a good hour and couldn't make the buzz go away. Hoping that for some magical reason the buzz might go away, I agree to give it a few weeks with hopes the issue resolves itself. I guess I shouldn't have pulled it off the lot that day (oh, I fogot it's a 375lb stove with no wheels and this model is backordered for 2 to 3 months (so I am told).

    Now it's starting to get cold and my old Whitfield that never had one problem (in 10 years) is sitting in my garage with a "sold" sign on it. After two weeks of the xxv buzz not resolving itself, I call the dealer and the dealers "Harman trained tech" comes out to work on it. Supposedly he makes buzz go away, all I know is that it buzzed when I got home that night. I call the next day, and about a 1 to 2 weeks later another visit (they replace the blower) buzzing stops until that night when it starts again. I call again...third visit by tech (they follow steps outlined by Harman try bending the shroud up) supposedly this fixes the problem,.....until that night when I get home, ...yes still buzzing. .....man. I call for a 4th visit and they tell me they are waiting on Harman for a fix.......man, I call the factory (and get knowhere). Man am I frustrated.

    Now it's late December, I get frustrated enough to find this forum and tell people what I have been encountering. As soon as I do, I get emails telling me they are having the same problem with the same model but a different dealer (they just must have not been as peaved as I was to post about it). Call it "bashing", "crying", "stating facts", or "squeeking enough to get greased", I don't care what you call it. All I know was I wasn't the only one with this issue, but obviously one of the most vocal. Do you think that these posts had anything to do with getting the buzz resolved (I don't know, kind of makes me wonder)?

    Now after 3 months of buzzing, I finally got the the issue resolved. I have to admit that after I got it fixed, I did feel a little bad for casting a shadow on Harman's image in this forum (but you know what, I got over it, specially after I gazed into the magical fire of my now quite XXV). Heck, if the glass wasn't so damn hot, I would run over right now and give it a big hug and kiss........man I must really do love this stove. Seriously, as I felt a little bad about potentially tarnishing Harmans image, I made sure to let everyone know they finally came through backed up the warranty. Thinking back, after 3 months of this issue, 3 visits from the dealer tech service, then being told Harman recognizes the issue and they are waiting for Harman to come up with a fix, I seem to recall thinking how much longer are they going to insist I accept this? If they can't fix it, shouldn't they replace it? Oh did I mention I paid $3k for this stove ? (sarcasm).

    With respect to comparisons about bashing a Chevy, I wouldn't make the decision to buy, or not buy a Chevy based on one persons thread in a forum on the internet. Those that read this in the future that are in the market for a pellet stove likely will have a brain and can judge for themselves. I did before I bought a Harman. I recall reading a complaint or two about a Harman, and then a whole lot more about some of the other better known brands. If I were in the market again for a new pellet stove, to tell you the truth I would still buy a Harman (even considering the buzzing issue I had to endure for 3 months).

    When I almost got over my feelings about tarnishing the Harman image, I read your post, and now I have to feel bad all over again. I hope I get over it,....... it might take another day though. Bash, ... change of tune,..... bash, I am so confused.
  18. ColdinPA

    ColdinPA New Member

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    What you said further re-enforces the fact that EVERYONE seems to want to blame Harman for what their dealer does or doesn't do. Is the fact that the Harman trained Tech / Dealer couldn't find the problem Harman's fault? By the way it sounds....No.
    3 Months to get it fixed... Harman's fault? ....No.
    Is definitely not Harman's fault that just because you scream "jump", they didn't say "how high sir"!!
    It is Harman's fault the rattle was there in the first place. That I agree with. But it is a new model. New models have bugs. If they know about a problem that is inherent, they fix it. Period. I am sure the rep will let them know about it!!
    3 Months is to long to get it fixed, that I agree with.
    Did you expect Harman to get on a plane and fly out to fix your stove?
    I would not have bashed Harman. I would have bashed my dealer. I would have called Harman and had them Bash the dealer too. They should have fixed it or replaced it. That simple. You had every right to be mad. Just be mad at the right people. I am sure Harman would have joined you in your fight if you would have asked them to.

    Oh... I never said trade. I said if you wanna get rid of your XXV, let me know! I am a Die-Hard Harman owner. I doubt your Whitfield could come close to the Harman. You should have just thrown the Whitfield in the trash. Have you ever tried to call Whitfield's support line? LOL Try it sometime!! Then you will know why I switched to Harman. Even if I had to go through my dealer, they still helped me with that!! More than I can say about Whitfield or anyone else out there.
  19. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    Guess what my stove did this morning. Yes it buzzed again with the distribution blower on high. Though it is not doing it now, I am not feeling too comfortable that the fourth attempt to "fix" it worked.

    OK Harman dealers, what would you do if you sold this stove. Would you simply just replace my stove (knowing that as you state, you would have to pay shipping costs), or would you just continue trying to fix it. If I were a dealer, and had to pay the shipping, I would likely just keep trying to fix it. This is getting old, real old.

    ColdinPa, if this were your Harman Stove I don't think you would be a die hard Harman man.
  20. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    I guess I would agree and continue to fix it. Harman has to give the ok to send a stove back to them, so until they said so, I wouldnt send it to them. My second choice would be to take the stove back, and pay you what you paid for it. What I wouldnt give you back was the money for the pellets you burned, the installation price, and the price for the pipe, as you can reuse the pipe. I also probably wouldnt refund the delivery fee, if any. Its been my experience that once someone is disenchanted with a unit, even after a fix and it runs perfectly, they will forever complain, etc. Sometimes better to cut your losses, remove the stove, rework it, sell it as used, as long as its safe to do so. Also I would not sell you another stove, and suggest another means of heat with another stove company. To me it sounds as if your complaints are valid, but some folks expect too much....a completely silent stove, never have to clean, no maintenance, etc. Again, I must stress it sounds your complaint is valid, so I am not knocking you...just saying what I would do as a dealer.
  21. moog5

    moog5 Member

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    Harry, thanks for the response....with all due respect, if you were my Harman dealer and worked on this stove as many times as my dealer (who is more than competent), including the the Harman Rep (who is more than competent), and agreed to fix it, but then after repeated visits finally decided that you were just going to pull the stove out of my house and refund my money because it was out of your hands and in Harmans, I would point to the warranty and show you where it says repair or replace ( I need heat, you can't just simply pull it in the middle of winter). If you determined that you could legally just refund my money, I would just go to the next dealer an buy the same model because I truly believe that this unit is just an anomoly ( ...maybe one out of 5,000 or 10,000 with a problem which can't be readily fixed after after 4 visits). If you want to run you business by labeling customers as "easily disenchanted" when the promised product the customer paid for is not delivered, then refuse to do business with them, this is America, you have every right to run your business how you want to. If you suggested to me that I use an alternate form of heat, I would tell you thanks for the advice, then ignore it, I have been using a pellet stove for the past 10+ years without a problem (not counting this buzzing issue).

    Harman and/or the dealer aren't the only ones being subjected to add'l costs here. These repeated visits by service techs are not only costly and frustrating for the dealer/tech, the rep, and Harman, but everytime I have to miss work to meet the service tech I at my house it costs me roughly $200+ in lost earnings.

    Harry: I don't want to sound as if I don't appreciate your response, because I do. I am just trying to tell you not all customers are ignorant. I realize maintenance and noise from blowers, augers and other moving parts are inherent with pellet stoves. With my old Whitfield I had the additional clink clink of pellets falling into the pot, not on this stove. On the Whitfield there wasn't even an ash drawer, I had to completely shut it down and vacuum it out about every 3rd or 4th day, plus I performed all the maintenance on it at least twice a season, it's not exactly a rocket science.

    All I want is what I paid for, it's pretty simple when you think about it. I believe the only "win/win" solution for all partys is to simply replace this anomoly. If it's not the dealers decision, than it must be Harman's.
  22. davemich

    davemich New Member

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    Pete S, I think what you did was was not out of line. Harmon gives the dealer the training and certification to service their stoves as a dealer. Free country last time I checked. If I laid out $3 grand for a stove and it was not running as advertised, I too would let the worldf know especially if I tried everything else and was getting nowhere. Harmon needs to realize that if a dealer reports an apparent problem that they are not able to fix, that they need to take action now, before it gets out of hand. Lime had issues with his $3 grand stoker and it took too long for Harmon to finally get his remedy. Customer service is key especially when there are alternatives out there. These forums are not new so they realized peeps will look for answers elsewhere if they are not getting service.
  23. Rick-In-RI

    Rick-In-RI New Member

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    I purchased a Harman XXV a month ago, and like, Pete S, I am having a problem with the distribution blower. That is, the blower makes excessively loud buzzing/vibrating noise when set at or past the mid-point. So, as you can see, there are others out here that are having problems with this stove. What really has me upset though, is the fact that I can’t get my dealer (located in RI) or Harman to return my phone calls or acknowledge the letters that I have sent to them asking them to address this issues. In fact, I have gotten more help form Pete S and his Harman representative. So, Needless to say, after spending $3K very heard earned dollars, my dealer and Harman have literally left me out in the cold (Caveat Emptor!)
  24. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    Pete, with all due respect, I considered not replying to your post, as I felt you are quite close to the issue, and any reply I might make would seem antagonistic. I didnt mean it as such. I simply told you what I would do. Beleive it or not, some people really shouldnt own a stove. Their area of expertise is in some other area. I AM NOT saying this is you, Pete, but surely you can concede that there are people who really lack what it takes to own a stove.
    As for the buzzing.......THERE IS A FIX.....its the sheet metal shroud around the distribution fan....it resonates....it can be gasketed to stop the vibration, but if its not done right and tightened well, it'll recurr. My marketing rep sent me pictures on how to rectify it, thanks to them....you know who you are, Charlie. Really, go to the delear, see him face-to-face......demand satisfaction.....
  25. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    yup, ron, pretty much it in a nutshell.......Harman wants the dealer who sold the unit to service it. I suggest tho, as a Harman dealer, that if Harman DOES start having issues, like the buzzing XXV, that they get a fix, and get it darn quick, and let the dealer know about it....or at least acknowledge the problem to the dealers..........for instance, until very recently, I didnt know about the buzzing issue....none of the XXV's we sold do that, or the customers arent telling us. Heard about it here long before I heard about it from the marketing rep......one of the reasons I enjoy coming here. New info!
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