Harman XXV - smoke odor

[wporter4]

Morning,

I recently had a Harman XXV professionally installed in my one story ranch home in Western Mass. The stove is on an interior wall with the exhaust going through the wall into a closet and them up through the attic and roof. This weekend I fired up the stove for the first time and noticed a considerable smell of smoke in the bedroom where the exhaust runs through the roof. Is this normal? I assumed at least one bag of odor from the new metal and burning the finish on the stove and what not but we are already two bag in and the odor isn't stopping. Is there an easy way to find a leak in the exhaust?

Thanks

 

[VTrider]

Some odor w/the first few burns is normal, like you said stove burning off new paint, silicone curing on pipe sections, etc. It would make me a little nervous since it sounds like most of the pipe is inaccessible in the wall? Probably nothing to worry about if it professionally installed, but it couldn't hurt contacting the installer and just voicing your concerns. The first thing I would recommend though, if you do not have one already is to pick up a few carbon monoxide detectors and install them in each room where the pipe goes through.

 

[wporter4]

The pipe is accessible in the closet as I have not boxed it off yet. I intentionally have not boxed it off until we used the stove a few times to ensure everything is working correctly. When I do block it in I will either use plywood that can be easily taken down or some type of wire that can be seen through. It sounds like I should burn a few more times. I do have CO and smoke detectors in every room of the house and one tied to the security system in the hallway.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You should not be getting a smoke smell even on a first burn.

The finish and other things curing smell does not remotely smell like wood smoke. The curing smell will be present until every thing gets fully cured and can take some time if the stove is not operated full out.

If you are smelling wood smoke get that installer back.

 

[Bkins]

Lots of reasons why you could be smelling smoke. The above reply points out some good ones. Next would be what kind of pipe was used and if it wasn't the type that postitively twists and seals then you need to ask the installer if he sealed each connection. I have not tried it but people on this forum have said you can see smoke, if it is coming from the pipe, by turning off all lights and shining a flashlight at the pipe seems while the stove is cranked up. You should see any and all leaks. If you see leaks its a matter of taking the pipes all apart and putting high temp sealer on the connnections. If the pipes are hidden some people have good luck using HVAC aluminium tape.

You gotta find if you have a leak first with the light test. This is most likely with a new install. Who did the install?

 

[Bkins]

Lots of reasons why you could be smelling smoke. The above reply points out some good ones. Next would be what kind of pipe was used and if it wasn't the type that positively twists and seals then you need to ask the installer if he sealed each connection. I have not tried it but people on this forum have said you can see smoke, if it is coming from the pipe, by turning off all lights and shining a flashlight at the pipe seems while the stove is cranked up. You should see any and all leaks. If you see leaks its a matter of taking the pipes all apart and putting high temp sealer on the connections. If the pipes are hidden some people have good luck using HVAC aluminium tape.

You gotta find if you have a leak first with the light test. This is most likely with a new install. Who did the install?

 

[wporter4]

I spoke with the installer last night and he said to run 6 bags through the stove this weekend and see if the smell continues. I will also try to flashlight test this evening and report back.

Thank you for the replies thus far.

 

[wporter4]

I have run a few more bags through and the odor remains - stronger on start up than anything. I fired up the stove last night and was at the pipe with my flashlight and didn't see any smoke comes out of the seams. I did notice there is the sound of air at the bottom by the clean out. When I push my palm against the bottom of the clean out the sound goes away. Is this common? I have posted a picture of the clean out below.

 

[unklechuckles19]

When you do the flashlight test, do it from a fresh startup as there is more smoke running through the pipes during startup. Darken the area around the pipes as best as possible and shine the flashlight right at the seams in the pipe. You might not see huge clouds of smoke pouring out, it might be just a small wisp so you have to look carefully.

Like others have said, the "new appliance smell" that is common with the paint curing smells nothing like wood pellets burning. With the stove off, make sure the bottom of the cleanout T is secured properly, perhaps it wasn't secured right from the factory or the installer had it off for some reason.

 

[PJPellet]

IMO what you are experiencing is not right. If I were you I would demand the installer come back and find the problem. In the meantime I would keep at least one CO detector near the pellet stove and if possible a CO detector in each bedroom. I wish you the best of luck with this. Please let us know how it works out.

 

[Lousyweather]

agreed- no WOOD smoke smell on a first burn......but you may get an oil burn smell, or a paint cure smell...those ARE normal. It also occurs to me that its not a great idea to enclose pipe in a chase OR a closet without adequate air movement. Heat may build to dangerous levels in an enclosed space with no way for the pipe to cool......also, in a closet, what if something falls against the pipe, and you dont realize it? I know we will have some folks say the pipe doesnt get hot enough, but it can. Most pellet pipe is designed to have a designated clearance to combustibles.......for instance, with Simpson pellet vent, that clearance is 1" from combustables.....a combustable being lumber, sheetrock, or your summer coat.

 

[wporter4]

My plan is to enclose the pipe with either sheet rock or plywood and have at least 3 inch clearance on all sides.

Once the stove cools today I will check the fitting on the bottom of the clean out and try the smoke test again from a fresh start up and report back.

If I can't find anything I agree with everyone that I will need to get the installer back.

 

[wporter4]

Morning - I started up the stove this morning with a flash light at the ready and sure enough saw whisps of smoke from two joints in the pipe. I have asked the installation company to come out an fix the situation. What should they be doing to fix the issue? I like being at least as informed as anyone doing work at my house.

 

[Bkins]

What kind/brand of pipe did they install? The name should be onyour invoice or maybe printed on the pipe. What 2 joints did it come from?

 

[wporter4]

They installed Selkirk Model VP pipe. One leak is between two straight pieces of pipe seen below on the right side of that pipe. The other I cannot tell exactly where it is as I didn't see the smoke coming out of the pipe anywhere but did see significant smoke haze with the flashlight around the T at the bottom that I posted in previous pictures. I shut the stove down and am going to start it again in a few hours to take another look.

 

[will711]

From the picture it appears that the pipe isn't totally joined, the right side looks higher than the left. I'm not sure if the VP model of selkirk has the built in gasket or not, if not then they need to seal the joints with high heat silicon. I would check the clean out cap on the tee it may not be seated correctly either. Hope this helps.

 

[wporter4]

Thanks for the info. I fired up the stove again and noticed two things. It seems smoke is coming out from the clean out at the bottom of the T and then from two screw holes in the T fitting also.

 

[will711]

Thanks for the info. I fired up the stove again and noticed two things. It seems smoke is coming out from the clean out at the bottom of the T and then from two screw holes in the T fitting also.

No problem. Installer NEEDS to come back and fix this for you. Welcome to the forum keep us posted & happy heating.

 

[wporter4]

The installer returned today and siliconed and taped every seam. All leaks from the seams have stopped with two start ups. The T cap still leaks and he offered to put silicone on it or tape but the issue there is it makes it more difficult to clean out the pipe and get it to set correctly the next time. He suggests trying to run it for a few more days and see if the leak stops - I am more proactive than that. Any one else have issues with Selkirk 3 inch T caps not getting seated correctly and having air flow?

 

[PJPellet]

The installer returned today and siliconed and taped every seam. All leaks from the seams have stopped with two start ups. The T cap still leaks and he offered to put silicone on it or tape but the issue there is it makes it more difficult to clean out the pipe and get it to set correctly the next time. He suggests trying to run it for a few more days and see if the leak stops - I am more proactive than that. Any one else have issues with Selkirk 3 inch T caps not getting seated correctly and having air flow?

Glad he came back for you and is trying to take care of the issue. I have Selkirk 3 inch pipe also. My T is outside but I think this info will still apply to your setup. When I cleaned my pipe this summer for the first time, it took me pushing real hard on the T cap to re-align the machine screw holes after I removed the T cap for brushing out the pipe. Maybe you can put more pressure on the cap and seat it higher in the T? Another thing, this is probably obvious but is there a round gasket piece in your T cap when you remove it? There should be and that piece compresses to seal the cap when it's reattached. Hope this makes sense.

 

[wporter4]

What would the ring look like? I can see white mesh type substance similar to the gasket on the glass of the fire place. Is that what I should be looking for?

 

[richkorn]

All that silicone and tape is just a band aid. That vp should not need that. I think the pipes are not inserted and aligned properly. On a bright side there is no problem with wrapping aluminum tape around the t cap. I did that with my last install. Just use utility knife and cut along seam to take cap off. And reapply aluminum tape after.

 

[PJPellet]

What would the ring look like? I can see white mesh type substance similar to the gasket on the glass of the fire place. Is that what I should be looking for?

In my T cap there is an orange piece of rubber/silicone about 1/8 inch thick. When I re-attach the T, the orange piece is compressed forming the seal. Here are some pics. Darn pictures are blurry but I think you get the idea.....

 

[wporter4]

It looks like your cap goes on the outside of the pipe where mine sets into the pipe and is recessed. The stove is on right now but I will send a picture later tonight.

 

[PJPellet]

Mine is recessed too. I have to apply pretty good pressure to align the machine screw holes up for re-seating. It's that pressure on the orange piece that seals the cap. The indentation on the orange piece is from the inner pipe. Hope that makes sense.