Has anyone removed the finished wall portion obove a doorway?

[jeepinman9]

Has anyone removed the finished wall portion obove a doorway to transfer the warm air that lays in the celing area. I have seen pics of this before, but i can seem to find any now. I was thinking of doing this to move warm air from one half of my house to the other half. I would like to find some pics to show my wife the finished product and get some design ideas. The half of my house that the basement door is in is where all the warm basement air comes up and is much warmer that the rest of the house.

Thanks!
Dan

 

[begreen]

That area is called the transom. It can be done, but don't cut into the king supports of the door.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/11233/

Before cutting open the wall you might want to try a simpler approach. It may sound counter-intuitive but many have success blowing the air from the cool area, low, toward the stove. You can try this with a simple table or box fan on low speed. That sets up a convective air loop. Warm air will replace the displaced cooler air.

 

[smokingolf]

I found these little muffin type fans that are designed to mount in the corner of the doorway at the top to move air room to room. I have one mounted in the door from the living room to the dinning room and one from the dinning room to the kitchen and the kitchen will stay around 67 to 70 deg farthest from the stove. I think I got them from plow and hearth. They work great for me.

http://www.plowhearth.com/Corner-Doorway-Fan-with-Cord_p78.html

Brian

 

[fossil]

Spanning across the top width of virtually every wall opening (window, door, whatever) in typical stud wall construction is a structural member called a header. Just how "beefy" the header is depends on the width of the opening and the load it is required to bear from above. It's not unusual to dig into the wall above a typical interior door in a single story structure and find a doubled-up 2"x8" going across up there. That header may take up most of the space you were hoping to open up. Messing with that header or the jack studs above it in any significant way is a really bad idea. If you're insistent on this course of action, I strongly suggest you bring in a professional carpenter. Rick

ETA: You can certainly strip the drywall from both sides and then see what you've got to work with as far as intalling a small through-the-wall fan or two up there...just don't go cutting into or removing any of the structural elements.

 

[woodmiser]

Moving warm ceiling air around from ceiling to ceiling doesn't do you a whole lot of good. We don't live on our ceilings. I'm not a fan of using fans up high unless it's for mixing all of your room air. Use ceiling fans to mix up the upper layer of warm air with the lower layers of cooler air. Use floor level fans if needed to push cooler air into the warmed room. This forces the warm air out of the warm room and it will have no problem getting out the doorway without the transom gutted as you are suggesting. You also would be surprised how well natural convection works. I can sit in front of our fireplace, ceiling fan on low/reverse, and feel a natural cool breeze along the floor created by the cooler air being drawn into the room through natural convection.

And don't forget, openings from room to room can create unwanted side effects like light and noise intrusion with the doors closed.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

Though opening the wall above interior doors is possible, you might find that doing so significantly changes your houses aesthetics. I have seen some really nice through the wall fans that are small, round and unobtrusive. They can also be put on a simple on-off switch or a thermostatic control. If you're handy, installing them is moderately easy.

Dito on the noise and light transference which might be annoying. Plan, plan, plan is the order of the day...IMHO.

 

[billb3]

Has anyone removed the finished wall portion obove a doorway to transfer the warm air that lays in the celing area. I have seen pics of this before, but i can seem to find any now. I was thinking of doing this to move warm air from one half of my house to the other half. I would like to find some pics to show my wife the finished product and get some design ideas. The half of my house that the basement door is in is where all the warm basement air comes up and is much warmer that the rest of the house.

Thanks!
Dan

I've put hinged transom windows over interior doors for light and air movement in the Summer .
You have to careful with loads and headers on load bearing walls.
Unless you have rather high ceilings or you're trying to keep a door shut a fan might be easier, or if you have toddlers a dutch door.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

Has anyone removed the finished wall portion obove a doorway to transfer the warm air that lays in the celing area. I have seen pics of this before, but i can seem to find any now. I was thinking of doing this to move warm air from one half of my house to the other half. I would like to find some pics to show my wife the finished product and get some design ideas. The half of my house that the basement door is in is where all the warm basement air comes up and is much warmer that the rest of the house.

Thanks!
Dan

I've put hinged transom windows over interior doors for light and air movement in the Summer .
You have to careful with loads and headers on load bearing walls.
Unless you have rather high ceilings or you're trying to keep a door shut a fan might be easier, or if you have toddlers a dutch door.

Come to think of it, this sort of thing was standard in old time buildings. For example, go to old court houses or old schools. I can remember my teacher opening the window above our classroom door to remove heat.

 

[DanCorcoran]

Has anyone removed the finished wall portion obove a doorway to transfer the warm air that lays in the celing area. I have seen pics of this before, but i can seem to find any now. I was thinking of doing this to move warm air from one half of my house to the other half. I would like to find some pics to show my wife the finished product and get some design ideas. The half of my house that the basement door is in is where all the warm basement air comes up and is much warmer that the rest of the house.

Thanks!
Dan

I've put hinged transom windows over interior doors for light and air movement in the Summer .
You have to careful with loads and headers on load bearing walls.
Unless you have rather high ceilings or you're trying to keep a door shut a fan might be easier, or if you have toddlers a dutch door.

Come to think of it, this sort of thing was standard in old time buildings. For example, go to old court houses or old schools. I can remember my teacher opening the window above our classroom door to remove heat.

Yes, but the transom was designed into the structure of the door opening. It can't just be added by cutting out the space above the door.

 

[Jaugust124]

How about one of these somewhere near the doorway, but maybe not directly above it. I bought one, but haven't installed it yet. I am hoping for good results.
They actually make two models. One is hardwired, the other is a plug in version that moves a bit less air.

http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?p=suncourt_tw208p&product=111136&category=967

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

Has anyone removed the finished wall portion obove a doorway to transfer the warm air that lays in the celing area. I have seen pics of this before, but i can seem to find any now. I was thinking of doing this to move warm air from one half of my house to the other half. I would like to find some pics to show my wife the finished product and get some design ideas. The half of my house that the basement door is in is where all the warm basement air comes up and is much warmer that the rest of the house.

Thanks!
Dan

I've put hinged transom windows over interior doors for light and air movement in the Summer .
You have to careful with loads and headers on load bearing walls.
Unless you have rather high ceilings or you're trying to keep a door shut a fan might be easier, or if you have toddlers a dutch door.

Come to think of it, this sort of thing was standard in old time buildings. For example, go to old court houses or old schools. I can remember my teacher opening the window above our classroom door to remove heat.

Yes, but the transom was designed into the structure of the door opening. It can't just be added by cutting out the space above the door.

I was purely commenting on the fact that this was once standard technology. Of course adding to an existing structure should be done with care. Transoms were in vogue when ceiling heights exceeded 9'. Today, the standard ceiling height is 8'. That's hardly enough room for a transom. In fact, I have 8' ceilings in my home. There is 12" of wall above the casing. It's just not practical. Now a good through wall fan, I've seen a few really nice ones in the forums.

 

[begreen]

It depends on whether there is a solid header over the doorway or just cripples between the king studs. My understanding is that if there are just cripples, a framed, transom opening can be put in without structural harm, but I am not a pro carpenter. Is this correct?

 

[pyper]

Yes, but the transom was designed into the structure of the door opening. It can't just be added by cutting out the space above the door.

Actually in many cases it is that simple. The only time you can't just open up the area over a door is when it's load bearing (i.e. it's in a load-bearing wall). Most interior walls in most houses are not load bearing, but some are, and it pays to know with certainty which is which before cutting any framing members. When in doubt, a licensed contractor can show which is which.

Interesting factoid -- some contractors frame all openings with solid headers because it's easier. The additional lumber cost is party offset by the reduction in labor. It's easy enough to see if you have a solid header by pounding a finish nail into the drywall.

My brother-in-law's house has registers over all the doors -- one on each side of the wall. It's kind of odd. I like functioning transom windows myself. We don't have any in our house, but it would probably be a good idea to add one over the one door to help heat go down the hallway.

 

[glenlloyd]

Perforating the area above a door is dangerous unless you're sure that it's just a partition rather than a load bearing member. IF it's a single story house check above the partition in your attic space for any structural elements resting on the partition. If it's a two-story and there's a partition on the second floor above and this sits on a foundation wall in the basement or some other load bearing member then proceed with caution.

Headers are designed to carry weight across a space that is no longer available because of the door / window / whatever. It spans the distance from one side to the other so that the void below can exist.

In balloon framing headers are rare but in more modern platform construction they're frequent. That doesn't mean the space in balloon framing can be punctured for a fan without consequence. Balloon framing essentially went the way of the dinosaur at the end of the Victorian period due to the fire hazard it made with open wall cavities from the basement to the top of the house. Today everything is built pretty much with platform framing.

A Victorian with real transoms would be an ideal opportunity for fans / airflow, sadly the transom too is infrequent now.

steve

 

[pyper]

Perforating the area above a door is dangerous unless you're sure that it's just a partition rather than a load bearing member.

Yes, but -- if you don't cut the framing members, then there is no structural risk. Using the following website for reference photos:

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/departments/building-skills/framing-a-rough-opening.aspx

If you look at the photo on page 4 of that article, you can see that even with a 2x8 header, there can still be a fair amount of open space between the framing members available for ventilation, if one desires.

I read a really interesting HUD publication about how structures really work vs. the conventional wisdom. There was a section on non-load bearing partition walls, where they point out that partition walls, from an engineering standpoint, are box beams -- they support themselves. So the fact that a wall has a wall above it does not necessarily mean that it's load bearing (even if the contractor doubled up the joists and put headers in the doors) -- it depends on the rest of the framing. If a wall has joists perpendicular to it, for instance, then it's load bearing, but that can be tricky to tell without opening the ceiling.

If there's any doubt about a stud, then don't cut it.

 

[pen]

Balloon framing also died as lumber didn't come in lenghts long enough to go from basement to a second story.

Many single story homes w/ trusses need almost no header above the door as they are not carrying weight. 2 2x4's laid flat is actually common. Doing that provides a nailer for sheetrock and trim molding and stiffness as well.

However, if the opening is only at the top, and you want air to enter, you'd also need to have a place for cold air to return. I think this would make for a fire hazard and also something which would reduce the value (in terms of money and looks) of your home.

As others have said, procede with caution. It's your home, do as you wish. I could do the same in mine but would not.

pen

 

[glenlloyd]

Perforating the area above a door is dangerous unless you're sure that it's just a partition rather than a load bearing member.

Yes, but -- if you don't cut the framing members, then there is no structural risk. Using the following website for reference photos:

http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/departments/building-skills/framing-a-rough-opening.aspx

If you look at the photo on page 4 of that article, you can see that even with a 2x8 header, there can still be a fair amount of open space between the framing members available for ventilation, if one desires.

I read a really interesting HUD publication about how structures really work vs. the conventional wisdom. There was a section on non-load bearing partition walls, where they point out that partition walls, from an engineering standpoint, are box beams -- they support themselves. So the fact that a wall has a wall above it does not necessarily mean that it's load bearing (even if the contractor doubled up the joists and put headers in the doors) -- it depends on the rest of the framing. If a wall has joists perpendicular to it, for instance, then it's load bearing, but that can be tricky to tell without opening the ceiling.

If there's any doubt about a stud, then don't cut it.

I believe that what I said is consistent with both your HUD reference and your text. I'm also in the camp that believes aesthetics overrule functionality when you're dealing with a house, after all, you have to mend it if you ever want to sell. That is unless you intend to remain there for a very long time.

If the modification is easy and not obnoxious to the eye I'm all for it, but there is a limit and as Pen mentioned there is a danger also with regard to fire.

steve