Has anyone tested a convection blower motor?

[grendlesgirl]

Hi! I am the happy owner of a second-hand Breckwell Blazer 1992 FS model. The other day the convection blower started clicking and then quit. After reading your troubleshooting pages I took it all apart and cleaned it out (there was ash in the fan and very dirty all over). Basically when activacted, the fan would turn a couple of times and then quit. I could hear it humming but not turning. Also I oiled the fan, although since the x boyfriend left several years ago I admit that I didn't know to do this so it hadn't been done for a while.

I took the motor out and cut the end off of a 125 volt cord, attacked the two wires of the cord to the two wires of the motor. It would hum and get hot. The shaft wouldn't turn, in fact it locked up and had no play when plugged in, just like when it was mounted in the stove. My current tester showed that a current was going through one wire, and going through the ground wire, but no current in the second wire (both are black). (The acutal motor is 115 volts)

I went to the Bob Vila site on how to test an appliance motor and followed his instructions. The multimeter did show a reading that indicated that the motor should be working (around 2 OHMS).

I noticed that the exbf did jump one of the thermo swithes, I'm guessing so that the fan would always be running. I reconnected this and it still didn't help.

I am going to call a repair person to come out to fix and service it (probably overdue). I just wanted to know if ya'll think I will need a new motor, as they are pretty expensive, and I like to know as much as I can so as not to be taken advantage of....

If anyone has any time and advice on a cold Thanksgiving day, I would greatly appreciate it!

I am glad I just rewired this old house (myself) so I can temporarily run a space heater and electric blanket.....

Thanks again! Kelly

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If it turned a couple of times before quiting it is possible that it need to be oiled.

 

[grendlesgirl]

Yeah that is what I was hoping, but it still isn't working. ...

 

[littlesmokey]

Welcome to the hearth. You will have to wait for the Breckwell boys to show up, might be busy sleeping off a too big meal. I am not sure, but this might be a 12 volt system after the control board. Don't test the motor until you are sure. If you can protect yourself, reconnecting without reinstalling may allow you to do a quick test. Slow turns and stops are often due to binding in the motor shafts and bearings. Can you turn the blower with ease, even spin it? If it only moves slowly and with resistence, you need to think about a motor. Sometimes they can be worked on in a good motor shop, I have had some rebuilt, others the tech's are honest and suggest replacing.

You have come to the right place for answers and solutions, just give the crew sometime to finish their third piece of pumkin pie.

 

[grendlesgirl]

Well thanks for the so fast replies!

Both in and out of the assembly the shaft would rotate with ease (with a finger tip) until it got the signal to "turn on" when the stove heated up. Then it would be harder to turn, it won't turn on it's own but only if I am helping. Sometimes in this state the shaft will turn if I help but always stops and then humming from the motor. I'm worried about burning out the motor so I shut it down at that point.

Also if I call a guy out, what are some other good things to have them do while I spend my Christmas money on getting the stove fixed up? ; )

Oh, and also I notice that someone along the way removed the pink wire (blower) was moved from the circuit board and wired onto the power terminal. I'm guessing that was another doing by the ex bf to keep the fan on all the time.

And another thing I notice is that there is no intake pipe to the outside or basement. I'm guessing that because my old house is drafty the bf didn't think that was nessecery. Should I do that myself, or just have the repair-man do it. Will it save me much?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Yeah that is what I was hoping, but it still isn't working. ...

I had to hit my convection blower (FASCO) with a couple of squirts of WD-40 (there were two oil ports) to clean out whatever was causing the binding. It has been running fine ever since.

 

[grendlesgirl]

I was in a pinch so I had to use the wrong oil (mineral-oil base) yesterday. Today I picked up some 3 and 1 oil. It says to just use a couple of drops for oiling, should I use more than a couple of drops if I think it is dirty? It was pretty dang dirty, but I worry about gunking it up and taking it apart. It is the Fasco kind too. . . . I've never worked with a motor before but might as well figure it out, especially if I can blame it on Smokey The Bear ; )

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I was in a pinch so I had to use the wrong oil (mineral-oil base) yesterday. Today I picked up some 3 and 1 oil. It says to just use a couple of drops for oiling, should I use more than a couple of drops if I think it is dirty? It was pretty dang dirty, but I worry about gunking it up and taking it apart. It is the Fasco kind too. . . . I've never worked with a motor before but might as well figure it out, especially if I can blame it on Smokey The Bear ; )

First off I believe that FASCO says to oil that puppy with SAE#20 Oil which isn't the normal 3 in 1 oil in the red & white container, but the 3 in 1 oil in the blue & white container.

I had some SAE#20, but I still had to hit it with the WD-40 as the regular oil was not working because of residue (I suspect).

No I'm not saying it will take care of your situation, just it is something to try. There are many causes of problems with motors.

 

[littlesmokey]

Well, we all know one of the reasons it's an EX. Don't call out a tech, yet. If you have the motor out, take it to a motor shop and have them run a bench test. Should not cost you a thing. If they want to charge, tell them thanks, but you have a few more stops..... and head to the next one. If it turns out to be a 12vdc motor, even an auto parts store can check that.

As far as the air intake, if it's older, it doesn't need, nor usually is it equipped with an OAK (outside air kit). Stoves have run fine for years with that crummy inside air we all have to breathe :smirk:

The control board and the jumped wires may be an issue, but it may be OK too. The jump may have been done, just to by pass a bad snap switchm or one that needs to be reset.

 

[CanadaClinker]

......welcome grendlesgirl........ can you spin the blower freely when not connected to power.... if you can, but can't when connected to power, it may be that the capacitor is toast. The cap is used to cause startup rotation. I know with oil furnace motors, they used to have a centrifugal switch which would switch the cap out after startup (and back in the cct when the motor stopped). Not sure if yours has this or not. In their case, either the switching contacts for the cap were dirty or burnt or the centrifugal switch was seized on the shaft and wouldn't move .... oil would fix this problem. Anyway, oil is cheap and would be the first attack.... after that, I thinks the cap is 2/3 the cost of the motor. (Around $100)

Oh and regarding your......... "Oh, and also I notice that someone along the way removed the pink wire (blower) was moved from the circuit board and wired onto the power terminal. I’m guessing that was another doing by the ex bf to keep the fan on all the time." .........here is a link to a cct drawing.... http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/92breckwell.gif . .....Also....does your blower look like this...... http://woodheatstoves.com/breckwell-combustion-exhaust-blower-p-497.html Hope some of this helps you Kelly......... cc

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I think you got the wrong blower there CC, it is the convection blower.

Littlesmokey it is a standard 115 volt AC motor.

 

[CanadaClinker]

........oops.......thanks smokey........ this one might be better...... http://woodheatstoves.com/breckwell-pellet-stove-convection-fan-p-503.html ....... cc :cheese:

 

[grendlesgirl]

Wow! You guys are experts. Thanks to the Breckwell site I have been able to reference a wiring diagram. It sure is nice to have that manual there online! So it is the Auger Thermodisk that he jumped, and the convection fan blower (pink) wire was taken off the circuit board and put on the power terminal strip.

So I have two things to try.... 1. MORE OIL (insert Tim Allen grunting)
2. Take motor to a place that can test it to see if I will really need a replacement before calling for repairs. At least if it is the motor I can buy a replacement and probably install it myself.

Boy it will be so nice to just have it start working with more oil! In fact, if everyone had more oil, we could solve a lot of problems on a social, national, and financial level....

I sure hope I get it working soon, the pellet stove is a great comfort to me, and this space heater is just so depressing. One of the dogs is sitting in the chair in front of the pellet stove, looking forlorn and curled up in a tiny ball. . . .

 

[grendlesgirl]

Yeah that link is for my blower, although I read on the internet that it is an "upgrade" from the kind of motor that I have, so I don't know what would be different....

 

[grendlesgirl]

Oh and to answer Canada and another Q for him....it is how you say - spins freely when "off" then tightens up when signaled to turn "on". If the capacitor is toast could it still pass the multimeter test for resistance?

 

[Bkins]

I was in a pinch so I had to use the wrong oil (mineral-oil base) yesterday. Today I picked up some 3 and 1 oil. It says to just use a couple of drops for oiling, should I use more than a couple of drops if I think it is dirty? It was pretty dang dirty, but I worry about gunking it up and taking it apart. It is the Fasco kind too. . . . I've never worked with a motor before but might as well figure it out, especially if I can blame it on Smokey The Bear ; )

First off I believe that FASCO says to oil that puppy with SAE#20 Oil which isn't the normal 3 in 1 oil in the red & white container, but the 3 in 1 oil in the blue & white container.

I had some SAE#20, but I still had to hit it with the WD-40 as the regular oil was not working because of residue (I suspect).

No I'm not saying it will take care of your situation, just it is something to try. There are many causes of problems with motors.

This is some good info on the using of WD-40 if there is a way to get it to the bearings. Do you have little caps, or screw plugs directly in line with the bearings? If so take them out and squirt in some WD-40. Don't go overboard with the WD-40. Let it sit awhile and then spin the shaft and let it sit awhile longer. Drain what you can get out and add some oil. This will not help if your capacitor is toast.

David

 

[grendlesgirl]

Okay, so I am running the stove again with the motor in the assembly. I did add more oil. When it turn it on it locks up but with a finger I can pull it to spin. It spins the fan about 4 rotations fast then comes to a fast dead halt. Kinda like it is trying to turn but something tells it to stop?

When I had the motor out, it really didn't have any parts for me to take apart, except the cap where the shaft comes out. It is held together by some mega metal clips, the kind that make me think they aren't meant to be removed ....

 

[littlesmokey]

This is a T-Day secret sharing, not to be given to anyone. Get a can of carburator cleaner, and teflon lube. Take the motor outside and spray the heck out of it. As it dries, hit it with the lube. Let it dry completely and lube again. Lube the shafts at the motor end, carb cleaner around, shouldn't hurt, maybe the paint.

Now the reason. Sealed bearings fail because the lube fails. Lube fails mostly bydrying out or gumming up. Putting more lube on top may work for awhile, but the old stuff is still there. Make it go away. The pressure of the spray will breach the bearing seals, when wet it will grab some lube and draw it inside the seals as it evaporates. Topping when dry may penetrate some.

I have saved babbitt bearings on heavy machines by this technique until we could teardown and repour the bearings. It's also been a temporary solution on Saw motors and arbors and other machines. In bigger stuff it is only temporary, but fractional horse motors it can significantly extend the useful life of the motor.

 

[grendlesgirl]

So I was "helping" the fan motor and it did run for about 30 seconds, then came to that dead halt again. Any ideas of how to drain the oil when I am applying? Thanks again for all the fast help....

 

[imacman]

Okay, so I am running the stove again with the motor in the assembly. I did add more oil. When it turn it on it locks up but with a finger I can pull it to spin. It spins the fan about 4 rotations fast then comes to a fast dead halt. Kinda like it is trying to turn but something tells it to stop?

When I had the motor out, it really didn't have any parts for me to take apart, except the cap where the shaft comes out. It is held together by some mega metal clips, the kind that make me think they aren't meant to be removed ....

Are you putting oil on just the output side of the motor shaft (the side that the blower is attached to)? If there aren't any oil plugs to be removed on the motor case (mine were yellow), then it's possible that the bearing in the end that's not accessible (the sealed end with the "mega metal clips") is either shot, or just completely gummed-up.

As someone above mentioned, try taking it to an electric motor shop....they may have a way to wash the interior of the motor with non-conductive solution. It might wash out the remaining "dirt". They may be able to re-lube it for you, or determine that the motor is shot.

 

[CanadaClinker]

Oh and to answer Canada and another Q for him....it is how you say - spins freely when "off" then tightens up when signaled to turn "on". If the capacitor is toast could it still pass the multimeter test for resistance?

If the windings haven't cooked from the motor just sitting and humming for too long and overheating, then it might just need a new cap.... if you have a motor repair place, bring it buy and ask for an estimate to get it running.

That one corrected link to the convection fan I posted above gave a cost about $160 for the whole unit so you can keep that in mind as a $ guideline.....

I remember there are 'capacitor start' and capacitor run' motors... the latter is where the cap stays connected all the time. If the cap was open, then your readings would read just the windings. If the winding were burn't , it wouldn't even hum and you would smell the stink of burning varnish.... :shut: .... anyway, try WD 40 or liquid wrench as freeing agent then some oil then suspect the cap. ;-) ....cc

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Okay, so I am running the stove again with the motor in the assembly. I did add more oil. When it turn it on it locks up but with a finger I can pull it to spin. It spins the fan about 4 rotations fast then comes to a fast dead halt. Kinda like it is trying to turn but something tells it to stop?

When I had the motor out, it really didn't have any parts for me to take apart, except the cap where the shaft comes out. It is held together by some mega metal clips, the kind that make me think they aren't meant to be removed ....

I'd try the fan outside of the stove, just be very careful. Trying it out side of the stove eliminates all of the stoves electronics from getting into the act.

I had to use WD-40 to get the crud out. The likely thing to have occurred is for some dust or other residue adhering to things when the oil finally dried up. The motor isn't all that strong and will bind easily.

 

[grendlesgirl]

I think you are right Canada. I did some checking on testing motors and came across a site that shows you what your multimeter will read - which is great because my multimeter didn't come with the college degree to use it ; ) So while Bob Vila said I was okay, this other site says that my capacitor is probably toasted. (It went all the way to the right, but then went to the left and sat around the 2 OHMs). So here is the site in case anyone is in the same situation as me. ..http://www.applianceaid.com/micro4.html

So now I just need to find a motor repair shop. You guys have any advice there? I'm guessing in smaller towns they probably don't just do motors....

 

[littlesmokey]

What small town in Idaho? I might be able to help.

 

[CanadaClinker]

I think you are right Canada. I did some checking on testing motors and came across a site that shows you what your multimeter will read - which is great because my multimeter didn't come with the college degree to use it ; ) So while Bob Vila said I was okay, this other site says that my capacitor is probably toasted. (It went all the way to the right, but then went to the left and sat around the 2 OHMs). So here is the site in case anyone is in the same situation as me. ..http://www.applianceaid.com/micro4.html

So now I just need to find a motor repair shop. You guys have any advice there? I'm guessing in smaller towns they probably don't just do motors....

How close are you to this place....... http://www.electricmotorif.com/ ....cc