Hate to do this but I am pulling out the soap box, Fuel makes the BTUs not a "bigger stove".

[kinsmanstoves]

I am attempting to be nice but this has come up numerous times in conversation in the last few days. Please remember just because your stove is a 34,000 to 43,000 btu stove does not mean it will give you less heat than a 61,000 or 68,000 btu stove if all you want to do is burn a bag of pellets a day.

Burning a pound of pellets per hour in any stove will give you approx 7,800 to 8,300 btu per hour (input). That is it. The size of the stove does not make "magic btu's".

Thanks for listening to my rant. I tried to be nice.

Eric

 

[Fsappo]

But doesnt a bigger pellet stove hold more logs so you can get longer burn times and not wear out the thermocouple on the coaltroll?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Not so fast oh Wise Pellet Wizard, you can not dismiss your potential customers nor sully the reputation of your fellow dealers without noting the difference between BTUs produced by burning and the BTUs that actually make it into the room the stove is in. Also a little enlightening of us common folks about all pellets not being the same would be helpful.

Now I'm not asking you to properly clean that poor abused Heatilator in your shop so take it easy on the folks watching.

 

[buildingmaint]

I have asked that question before, that a BTU is a BTU? That a pound of pellets will only produce so much heat, but I've been chastised by those who have OMEGA'S who claim that their stove will out heat my stove [ A Breckwell big E] with the same amount of pellets .

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Not so fast oh Wise Pellet Wizard, you can not dismiss your potential customers nor sully the reputation of your fellow dealers without noting the difference between BTUs produced by burning and the BTUs that actually make it into the room the stove is in. Also a little enlightening of us common folks about all pellets not being the same would be helpful.

Now I'm not asking you to properly clean that poor abused Heatilator in your shop so take it easy on the folks watching.

Wizard?, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

Yes there is a difference from input BTUs and output BTUs. Also look which brands claim input vs. output on their claims.

All pellets are made equal, well almost but it comes down to density and raw material.

The Heatilator was cleaned two Saturdays ago. It is going for round two on the abuse cycle. I have faith.

Eric

 

[chrisasst]

So you are saying these stoves will all heat the same....?

Heating Area 1,800 sq.ft.
Max. Heat Output 40,000 btu.

Heating Area 3,000 sq. ft.
Max. Heat Output 70,000 btu.

Min. Heat Output 12,000 btu.

Heating Area 1,700 sq. ft.
Max. Heat Output 50,000 btu.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now why is there a difference between input and output BTUs and could any of that difference have something size related to it ?

We the unknowing wish to be enlightened.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

So you are saying these stoves will all heat the same....?

Heating Area 1,800 sq.ft.
Max. Heat Output 40,000 btu.

Heating Area 3,000 sq. ft.
Max. Heat Output 70,000 btu.

Min. Heat Output 12,000 btu.

Heating Area 1,700 sq. ft.
Max. Heat Output 50,000 btu.

Yes at a bag a day which will break down to approx 1.66 lbs per hour. (notice the red in the original post).

Eric

 

[Fsappo]

Anyone in central NY is invited to feel the difference between 2lbs per hour of fuel used between 1 stove and another in our showroom. I'll even buy ya coffee.

 

[P0ZBURN]

I am attempting to be nice but this has come up numerous times in conversation in the last few days. Please remember just because your stove is a 34,000 to 43,000 btu stove does not mean it will give you less heat than a 61,000 or 68,000 btu stove if all you want to do is burn a bag of pellets a day.

Burning a pound of pellets per hour in any stove will give you approx 7,800 to 8,300 btu per hour (input). That is it. The size of the stove does not make "magic btu's".

Thanks for listening to my rant. I tried to be nice.

Eric

Interesting topic,
So if I burned 50 bags in 17 days then burned close to 3 bags a day. I guess I can assume I'm getting middle of the road of your BTU per hour output of 8,050. Then I ran 24 hours a day then my furnace put out 24,150 BTU's an hour? Or am I screwed up sounds less than I thought it would be.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Now why is there a difference between input and output BTUs and could any of that difference have something size related to it ?

We the unknowing wish to be enlightened.

Input BTUs is the BTU rating of the fuel going into the stove (found from the lab testing). The output BTU is what is coming into the room from the stove and is after the exhaust and efficiency of the stove is considered. There is heat loss during the exhaust process.

Did that pass your inspection Sir, Bear.....


Eric

 

[jtakeman]

I have asked that question before, that a BTU is a BTU? That a pound of pellets will only produce so much heat, but I've been chastised by those who have OMEGA'S who claim that their stove will out heat my stove [ A Breckwell big E] with the same amount of pellets .

I guess that would be directed at me hey? Owned both and the bigE is a tin can compared to the Omega! Its not just how much fuel they eat, It also has something to do with how much the heat exchanger extracts.

Set them up side by side on the same fuel rate. Measure heat exchanger temps and exhaust temps. There is such a thing as heat exchanger efficiency you seemed to be missing there Eric. %-P

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now why is there a difference between input and output BTUs and could any of that difference have something size related to it ?

We the unknowing wish to be enlightened.

Input BTUs is the BTU rating of the fuel going into the stove (found from the lab testing). The output BTU is what is coming into the room from the stove and is after the exhaust and efficiency of the stove is considered. There is heat loss during the exhaust process.

Did that pass your inspection Sir, Bear.....


Eric

Not really Eric, the question was could some of that difference have anything related to size. The answer is yes some of that difference can have a size related component.

If you look at a heat exchanger a larger surface area (size related) will extract more of the heat produced by the burning of that mythical standard pound of pellets. Also the size of the convection blower will come into play. In addition I'm sure that Franks is plugging the Europa which has several things going for it in terms of useful heat extraction.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Now why is there a difference between input and output BTUs and could any of that difference have something size related to it ?

We the unknowing wish to be enlightened.

Input BTUs is the BTU rating of the fuel going into the stove (found from the lab testing). The output BTU is what is coming into the room from the stove and is after the exhaust and efficiency of the stove is considered. There is heat loss during the exhaust process.

Did that pass your inspection Sir, Bear.....


Eric

Not really Eric, the question was could some of that difference have anything related to size. The answer is yes some of that difference can have a size related component.

If you look at a heat exchanger a larger surface area (size related) will extract more of the heat produced by the burning of that mythical standard pound of pellets. Also the size of the convection blower will come into play. In addition I'm sure that Franks is plugging the Europa which has several things going for it in terms of useful heat extraction.

Ok, now I understand what you were saying. My bad on the reading. Yes some stoves do have the edge on efficiency with heat exchangers and such but that took us off what I was originally ranting about.

Thanks all now I can go home and restrain from beating the dog, just kidding he is here at the store.

Eric

 

[turbotech]

Now why is there a difference between input and output BTUs and could any of that difference have something size related to it ?

We the unknowing wish to be enlightened.

Input BTUs is the BTU rating of the fuel going into the stove (found from the lab testing). The output BTU is what is coming into the room from the stove and is after the exhaust and efficiency of the stove is considered. There is heat loss during the exhaust process.

Did that pass your inspection Sir, Bear.....


Eric

Well, I see this all the time in turbo system design. A bigger and better heat exchanger always extracts more energy. It is all about size and material. Assuming both the small and large stoves use the same heat exchanger design and material then the larger will extract more BTUs.
So yeah, maybe they both burn the same amount of pellets, but the smaller unit is just blowing out the extra BTUs out the exhaust.
Post what you think are the heat exchanger efficiencies for the models you are comparing.

I could burn 2 lbs/hr of pellets in an open fire and get zero BTUs of usable heat for space heating. That is, zero efficiency in an large open fireplace (no heat exchanger).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now why is there a difference between input and output BTUs and could any of that difference have something size related to it ?

We the unknowing wish to be enlightened.

Input BTUs is the BTU rating of the fuel going into the stove (found from the lab testing). The output BTU is what is coming into the room from the stove and is after the exhaust and efficiency of the stove is considered. There is heat loss during the exhaust process.

Did that pass your inspection Sir, Bear.....


Eric

Not really Eric, the question was could some of that difference have anything related to size. The answer is yes some of that difference can have a size related component.

If you look at a heat exchanger a larger surface area (size related) will extract more of the heat produced by the burning of that mythical standard pound of pellets. Also the size of the convection blower will come into play. In addition I'm sure that Franks is plugging the Europa which has several things going for it in terms of useful heat extraction.

Ok, now I understand what you were saying. My bad on the reading. Yes some stoves do have the edge on efficiency with heat exchangers and such but that took us off what I was originally ranting about.

Thanks all now I can go home and restrain from beating the dog, just kidding he is here at the store.

Eric

Well somewhat off what you were talking about, but it speaks directly to part of why buildingmaint is befuddled by what other stove owners have to say.

 

[Doocrew]

I've always been told that size doesn't matter............ :lol:

 

[Pellet-King]

If we could only extract the heat going up the flue and remove the CO exhaust and have a almost 99% efficiency as i watch the flue emit all those heatwaves as the exhaust is blowing out into the wind.
All stoves are about the same BTU on lower temp's when it comes to setting it on max that's were the higher BTU comes in.

 

[peirhead]

I am unconvinced over the argument that bigger is always more efficient. It's in the design...you have to keep enough heat in the exhaust to avoid condensation in the stove and flue..there are lots of small every efficient stoves (pellet and otherwise). Also in most cases a smaller stove running harder will be more efficient than a larger one loafing along.

 

[AVIVIII]

Mr. Kinsman, yes, you are correct in the fact that if you are burning a bag a day, you will get the same amount of heat (within reason), efficiency differences aside.

The difference is in the ability to burn more than that one bag a day.

My good friend has a fantastic little Enviro Empress rated at 38k BTU, he runs it hot all the time and it burns a little more than a bag a day. If I crank my P68 (68k btu) up, i could probably burn 3 bags a day.

The idea that you are attempting to invalide BTU ratings is absurd. Not all oil boilers are limited by the iBTUs of fuel oil, they simply just burn more.

 

[summit]

I've always been told that size doesn't matter............ :lol:

just as long as it fits right

 

[Doocrew]

I've always been told that size doesn't matter............ :lol:

just as long as it fits right

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[jtakeman]

Also in most cases a smaller stove running harder will be more efficient than a larger one loafing along.

Put the big stove on a stat and it doesn't have to loaf. It will also recover better once it needs to. I will never again size the stove buy its rated max input. You have no room to play with. Rate your stove by the mid range to allow room to spare. If this is going to be the main source of heat with no back up. Its just a warmer way to play. If you don't mind using the furnace/backup source not as big a deal.

Would you head to the mall 100 miles away with only a half tank(a smaller stove) of gas knowing that if your caught in traffic(a cold spell) you might not have enough to make it home? I don't know about you all, But my tank would be full.

 

[smalltown]

I am attempting to be nice but this has come up numerous times in conversation in the last few days. Please remember just because your stove is a 34,000 to 43,000 btu stove does not mean it will give you less heat than a 61,000 or 68,000 btu stove if all you want to do is burn a bag of pellets a day.

Burning a pound of pellets per hour in any stove will give you approx 7,800 to 8,300 btu per hour (input). That is it. The size of the stove does not make "magic btu's".

Thanks for listening to my rant. I tried to be nice.

Eric

I see your argument Eric and I agree!

Eric if I understand your argument:If we both have stoves, and each has a different BTU rating, but we set them both to burn the same ie. one bag per day we will get the same amount of BTU output from that bag.
Of course some stoves are more efficient with better heat exchanger etc., but Erics argument is basicly sound especially if we are talking BTU input.
I think his original intent was to convey to his customers that just because one stove has a higher BTU rating that in and of itself doesn't make it a better pellet stove. People don't understand that they will be pushing more pelllets through to get that higher level of BTUs.

I've got a brother in law who bought a physically large pellet stove with a high BTU rating thinking it was better because of that high BTU rating. Boy was he surprised at the amount of pellets this monster consumes. I visited him yesterday, and he isn't even burning pellets. His stove was sitting there all hooked up stone cold.

 

[smalltown]

Duplicate post deleted do to fat finger syndrome!