There was a recent posting on this topic and it sounded like having some extra in front of the stoves is a good idea. I'm looking at the dimensions for the Jotul Castine and the min. is 42"Wx44D. The stove is 23 1/4 deep. When I add the 16" that code requires I have a hearth that extends about 40" in front of the door. I'm thinking about going out 48" from the front of my fireplace opening. Does it sound like those extra inches are good or can I scale it back a bit? Also, 48 inches makes it pretty easy to lay 12x12 or 16/16 tile.
Hearth Dimensions
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Ed in Maine
New Member
4' is quite a ways out into the room, all depends on how the room is set up. I'd go 42" and start with a half tile. Just my 2 cents. You'll have plenty of room on the sides for the coal hog, poker, etc.... (something else to consider).
Ed
Ed
The room is 13x29 and the kitchen is opposite the fireplace. The old (raised) hearth was 6'wide and about 2' deep. I can also reduce the width by moving the stove a few inches inside the fireplace opening - but thought it would provide more heat if the rear of the stove sits almost flush with the fireplace opening.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
I would say some of it is a question of personal taste and room layout, some of it is a question of how the hearth itself is designed.
First off, from a safety standpoint, you will never be hurt by having more than the minimum dimensions. The minimums are based on the idea of both protecting the floor from the heat put out by the stove, and giving a safety margin to catch anything that falls out the open stove door... Considering "clearance to combustibles" you really shouldn't figure on putting anything on the floor in the "minimum dimension" area other than maybe the rack for your stove tools. Having more area to the sides gives hard non-combustible surfaces to put your ash container, and possibly an easy to clean spot for your wood supply. More area in front of the doors just gives more room for anything that falls out to land with minimal risk - especially a log that rolls on you. I don't see any way it could cause a problem. (I also agree that having the stove as far out in the room as you can will give you the most heat, all else being equal)
So what about the "design question"?
If you build a raised hearth, then I see that as a problem in many cases as I see raised hearths as potential trip hazards, and the more they stick out into the room the more of a hazard they are at worst, and something to have to walk around at best...
OTOH, if you build the hearth, or hearth extension even with the floor, then it doesn't present any kind of traffic hazard, so I see no reason not to make it as wide as you like. There is much to be said for making things to take advantage of standard material dimensions when it's easy.
In our own situation, I will almost certainly have to extend our hearths if / when I go to replace our smoke dragons. The existing stoves are side load only, and sit on hearths with dimensions appropriate to a side load stove. Just about all the stoves out there these days have a front door, which will need more room in front of the stove. The existing hearths are one layer raised brick running across the corner of the room. My plan would be to remove the existing carpet, and cut out the particle board subfloor under the area that needs extending, then build back up to even with the carpet height using Micore, Durock and tile. This would give me a nice extension that wouldn't get in the way of foot traffic, or keep me from putting things onto it that were appropriate. The GF has talked about replacing the carpet with some other sort of flooring, which might also be a good thing, although I am of the opinion that the "non-combustible" area should be a different color, or marked with some sort of permanent border, to distinguish it from other areas of the floor. I don't know if code strictly requires this, but it seems to me like a good idea.
Gooserider
First off, from a safety standpoint, you will never be hurt by having more than the minimum dimensions. The minimums are based on the idea of both protecting the floor from the heat put out by the stove, and giving a safety margin to catch anything that falls out the open stove door... Considering "clearance to combustibles" you really shouldn't figure on putting anything on the floor in the "minimum dimension" area other than maybe the rack for your stove tools. Having more area to the sides gives hard non-combustible surfaces to put your ash container, and possibly an easy to clean spot for your wood supply. More area in front of the doors just gives more room for anything that falls out to land with minimal risk - especially a log that rolls on you. I don't see any way it could cause a problem. (I also agree that having the stove as far out in the room as you can will give you the most heat, all else being equal)
So what about the "design question"?
If you build a raised hearth, then I see that as a problem in many cases as I see raised hearths as potential trip hazards, and the more they stick out into the room the more of a hazard they are at worst, and something to have to walk around at best...
OTOH, if you build the hearth, or hearth extension even with the floor, then it doesn't present any kind of traffic hazard, so I see no reason not to make it as wide as you like. There is much to be said for making things to take advantage of standard material dimensions when it's easy.
In our own situation, I will almost certainly have to extend our hearths if / when I go to replace our smoke dragons. The existing stoves are side load only, and sit on hearths with dimensions appropriate to a side load stove. Just about all the stoves out there these days have a front door, which will need more room in front of the stove. The existing hearths are one layer raised brick running across the corner of the room. My plan would be to remove the existing carpet, and cut out the particle board subfloor under the area that needs extending, then build back up to even with the carpet height using Micore, Durock and tile. This would give me a nice extension that wouldn't get in the way of foot traffic, or keep me from putting things onto it that were appropriate. The GF has talked about replacing the carpet with some other sort of flooring, which might also be a good thing, although I am of the opinion that the "non-combustible" area should be a different color, or marked with some sort of permanent border, to distinguish it from other areas of the floor. I don't know if code strictly requires this, but it seems to me like a good idea.
Gooserider
Michael6268
Minister of Fire
Im lost. But i am in a bit of a fog today....... If the min depth is 44" why are you saying you have to add another 16"? I know 16" is needed in front of the stove, but doesn't the min's recommended account for this? Why would you need to add more to the min req by the manufacturer? Again, a bit foggy today, maybe im just not reading it correctly.....
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
Michael6268 said:
Well the first place you MUST look is in your stove owners manual - they will show the minimum dimensions for the hearth protection, which pretty much assume that the stove is positioned with minimum clearances at the back, plus the width of the stove, plus the minimum required depth in front. AFAIK, the standard default numbers are 16" in the US and 18" in Canada. If you put the stove more than the minimum clearance from the walls in the rear you must increase the front clearance a corresponding amount to preserve your front depth.
I think your confusion comes from the original poster having a pre-existing hearth where he wants to put the stove, that is not deep enough as-is to give the required clearances for where he wants to put the new stove (This is not unusual, especially if someone wants to put a free-standing stove in front of an existing fireplace, or even use an insert that sticks out into the room) Therefore he needs to extend the hearth to at least give the required clearance depth numbers. The OP was talking initially about how much he needed to add in order to get at least the total required.
Many people, myself among them, will argue that there are significant safety advantages to building the hearth pad Larger than the minimum required, especially in front of stove doors. We feel that sooner or later something burning will fall out of the stove, and the further it has to go to get off the non-combustible pad, the less likely it is to cause severe problems. Considering that tile and other building materials come in certain standard sizes, I also like to suggest building to dimensions that work with those standard sizes just to reduce the number of peices that need to be cut. - Lazy is good!
Gooserider
Let me try to clear the fog(or make it worse) Hope I've understood the hearth dimensions correctly.
The Castine is 23 1/4 deep. Jotul says min hearth requirement is 42wx44d. The stove will sit flush with the fireplace opening. I'm going 6' wide to match the width of the fireplace . I have to go almost 40 in.(23 1/4 + 16) into the room, so seems like another 8 inches is not too much extra - and it would use full size tile. The floor is wood(3/4 oak). My wife favors something less so I'll also play around with 40 or 42".
The Castine is 23 1/4 deep. Jotul says min hearth requirement is 42wx44d. The stove will sit flush with the fireplace opening. I'm going 6' wide to match the width of the fireplace . I have to go almost 40 in.(23 1/4 + 16) into the room, so seems like another 8 inches is not too much extra - and it would use full size tile. The floor is wood(3/4 oak). My wife favors something less so I'll also play around with 40 or 42".
first of all the brick fire place behind the stove is non combustiable so no clearance is required, however I would allow 6" free air space to alow air flow and full effect of radiation . If I do my math correct 23 ' wide plus 16 " = 39" the only other factor is the alotment of free air space behind the stove. The original 44 ' would allow 5" behind the stove. If you decide 48 " the extra distance in fromt of the loading door is an additional margine for the stray sparks, which is not a bad idea. That's how I would interpet your placement
Elk, thats how I see it too. I could put the stove a few inches inside the fireplace by top venting(draft isn't an issue). That would reduce the depth of the hearth, but seems like I will lose some of the heating ability of the stove - even thought the fireplace will radiate some of it back. Any thoughts on stove placement?
Are you purchasing the bottom heat shield? If not you need r2.0 to combustibles and tile over wood aint goona make it
Thanks nshif. I recently discovered that the Castine needed a higher r value than the other stoves I was looking at. Works out well because here is my hearth plan and materials I just bought(except for tile)
2 sheets of 4x8 1/2" Micore 300
1 sheet 1/4" backerboard
1/4" tile
Part of the subfloor was previously removed so I have a depth of 1 1/2" to use for the new hearth. I want to get as close to flush with the new floor as possible and think this will do the trick.
2 sheets of 4x8 1/2" Micore 300
1 sheet 1/4" backerboard
1/4" tile
Part of the subfloor was previously removed so I have a depth of 1 1/2" to use for the new hearth. I want to get as close to flush with the new floor as possible and think this will do the trick.
Well Im not a R factor expert but Im sure they will be along. What type of bakerboard? Duroc, Wonderboard? Do a forum search on R factor, there are some threads out there that give R factors for various products. 2.0 is rather high, you might be better off with theshield.
Thanks nshif. 1/2" Micore 300 has an r value of 1.09, so my two sheets get me over the r 2.0 required for the Castine. Added to that is a bit more r value for the hardibacker and the tile. A 4x8 sheet of the Micore was only $17, so I can do all the hearth, except for tile, for about $70. I'll also check on the cost of heat shield
MountainStoveGuy
Minister of Fire
im pretty sure all the new castines are shipping with bottem heatshields from the factory. There not installed, they are stored in the firebox.
Perhaps only tile - Say it ain't so! I've had my heart set on some Micore from the first time I heard about it here a few months ago. If you are correct I certainly can't tell anyone else here at the house. They are beginning top think I really know something about all this wood stove stuff :red:
Stoves require 16" of hearth extension measured from the front of the door in the US. 18" in Canada I believe. Adding a little extra is not a bad thing IMHO, but you don't need to go overboard.
MSG is correct. Our F400 came with the bottom heat shields. With the shield installed, it gets barely warm below the stove. All that is required with the heat shields in place is a non-combustible surface below the stove for a hearth. But added protection will offer more options in the future, if you change the stove.
MSG is correct. Our F400 came with the bottom heat shields. With the shield installed, it gets barely warm below the stove. All that is required with the heat shields in place is a non-combustible surface below the stove for a hearth. But added protection will offer more options in the future, if you change the stove.
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