1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

heat pump water heater deal

Post in 'The Green Room' started by GaryGary, May 11, 2013.

  1. DBoon

    DBoon Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    765
    Loc:
    Central NY
    I think this is likely a closeout since it runs on 220V. Newer Geysers are 115V. I wouldn't have bought a 220V unit if I had to run a new 220V line to it, but with the Geyser I just plugged it into a 115V outlet.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. GaryGary

    GaryGary Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Messages:
    286
    Loc:
    SW Montana

    I think that the idea of the 220 VAC is that its easy to power from a 220VAC electric water heater.

    Gary
  3. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,392
    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    So?

    :)
  4. GaryGary

    GaryGary Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Messages:
    286
    Loc:
    SW Montana
    Hi,
    Guess I should mention that the HPWH arrived and works.
    It turns out to be an E-Tech, which appears to be very similar to the Nyle.
    I think that they will supply either brand.

    While solar heats nearly all the water at our house, I do have a part of the house that is served by a 17 year old propane heater with lots of standby loss and very little actual use.

    So, I replaced the propane unit with a 50 gallon electric tank and hooked the new HPWH up to it. Its working fine.
    A side benefit in the summer is that the HPWH dumps cold air into the basement utility room and I can run the furnace fan on low with only the basement return air vent open. This pulls cool basement air (now cooler with the HPWH) out of the basement and circulates it to the main living area. I've been running the HPWH only in the afternoon when the house is starting to get a bit warm.

    I hooked up the HPWH with with SharkBites and a 240 VAC wall plug, so I can easily use the HPWH for other purposes -- not sure yet what those might be :)

    Gary
  5. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,392
    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    How are you controlling it? Are you using the electric tank thermostats?
  6. kopeck

    kopeck Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    516
    Loc:
    Maine
    I have one...

    Here's the deal. These are NOS units, they've been replaced by the Geyser or other newer models (heatingstuff are offering two brands). They run on 220v which for some reason seemed to be any issue for people so they didn't catch on like the new Geyser has. The original idea was these were to be used with a electric hat water heater, which uses 220v so it should have been handy. Who knows...

    I've been running mine for over a weak and it's provided 100% of my DHW. I'm not using it with an electric hot water heater like it was originally designed, I'm using it to dump heat directly into my 820 gallon heatbank that then feeds my indirect hot water heater.

    I have to be honest, I've had to deal with a small wiring snag that's still being sorted out. That being said the guys at heatingstuff have been very accommodating and I'm sure we will get it ironed out within a day or two. I'm also not using the Nyletherm but an E-Tech like GaryGary received.

    Once I get everything going properly I plan on writing a little review and posting it here.

    K
  7. GaryGary

    GaryGary Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Messages:
    286
    Loc:
    SW Montana

    Hi,
    Mine has been modified so that it is controlled by capillary style thermostat where the bulb of the thermostat is placed against the outside of the electric water tank and under the tank insulation. When the capillary thermostat gets up to about 128F, it shuts off the HPWH.
    This seems to work OK, and it does make the HPWH more flexible for other uses.

    Normally, these HPWHs tie into the thermostat wiring on the electric heaters in the tank. I never did look into how this exactly works, but the wiring looks relatively easy to do. There is a schematic that shows the original hookup, and I'm sure the HeatingStuff guys would be happy to provide an unmodified unit.

    Gary
  8. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,392
    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    What model E-Tech are they shipping? I hadn't heard of them until now.
  9. kopeck

    kopeck Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    516
    Loc:
    Maine
    It's the older boxy type model not the newer one that sits on top of a EHW tank.

    DSC01901.JPG

    K
  10. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Loc:
    Searsport, Maine
  11. pybyr

    pybyr Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,301
    Loc:
    Adamant, VT 05640
    This- the Nyle closeout- is really interesting.

    I have a stand-alone oil fired HW heater that is at the age where the tank is probably on borrowed time.

    Are there any efficiency ratings available for this Nyle HP unit that would let me compare (sort of) apples to apples on operating costs compared to the existing or a replacement stand alone oil-fired HW heater or a propane stand-alone HW heater? My incremental cost of electricity is 21 cents per kWh.

    PS, I understand that the HP unit is not going to necessarily pay for itself as compared to my existing unit- please assume, as I do, that I need to replace my existing unit relatively soon, and that I can and will do install myself, which should put outlay roughly the same between various fuel replacement water heaters.
  12. pybyr

    pybyr Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,301
    Loc:
    Adamant, VT 05640
    By the way, any track record on how these HPWH units' heat exchangers do with moderately hard water/ mineral buildup? My existing oil fired standalone HW heater makes a racket with steam pockets from mineral buildup in the tank. My water isn't hard enough to cause problems with anything else in the house, but the HW heater seems to have had buildup of minerals.
  13. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Loc:
    Searsport, Maine
    The average COP is about 3. I think it makes sense to figure that the unit saves 50% over a straight electric unit.
    If you are running a dehumidifier, then it is free because it still dehumidifies and produces DHW as a byproduct.

    They use a circular concentric water/refrigerant hx. It might have to be flushed in areas of hard water.
    I use mine to circulate tank water, so there is no issue with scale.
  14. Redbarn

    Redbarn Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    187
    Loc:
    SE PA
    We have had our Geyser (a descendant of the Nyletherm) for about 2 years now. It replaced an oil 80 gallon DHWH using 1 gall oil per day with $15 per month of electricity (@14.5 cents per KWh). Paid for itself in the first year. We kept the oil DHWH for use in the depth of winter and for full houses of visitors but otherwise it is left turned off.
  15. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,291
    Loc:
    SE PA
    AS Tom said, the big exchanger area, and low temp of the refrigerant means little to no mineral deposition on the HX. Only time will tell of course.
  16. Ehouse

    Ehouse Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    930
    Loc:
    Upstate NY
    Lowe's in Herkimer (Mohawk valley) has Whirlpool 40 gal. elec. water heaters for $218. They ordered a bunch because of the flooding there, and now have a surplus. Might be the case in other areas as well. Cheap in for a HPWH set up.
  17. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,436
    Loc:
    Eastern Central PA
    The ebay description explains that the unit may be defective. Seems like a lot to pay for old style defective unit when you can get a new GE for a few hundred more.
  18. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Loc:
    Searsport, Maine
    They are new but are old stock. The design is basically the same as the new units being sold today. If you get one that does not work, I believe you have five business days to let the seller know and get a replacement.

    My read is that the units are $300 and $65 for delivery anywhere in the US.
    I think the new GE units are $999 and if you can use it, you get a tax rebate.
    That's more than a couple hundred bucks difference.

    I have one that is seven years old and still going strong. It is tied into my big wood boiler tank. It can go with me to another location and tie into another tank.

    Nothing wrong with GE tank units, they are just different.
    Granted, I am partial to units made in Maine and know the guys who have these for sale.
  19. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    3,392
    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    For guys hooked to storage - how hot/warm would you say one of these units can maintain your storage temp? Assuming very well insulated and no calls for heat.

    Think I'm leaning closer to pulling the trigger on one...
  20. kopeck

    kopeck Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    516
    Loc:
    Maine
    I replied in the other thread, mine does 128 no problem.

    K
  21. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Loc:
    Searsport, Maine
    These units deliver 6-7000 btus/hr. We have folks who have used them with some pretty large tanks.
    The key is to have a well insulated tank if it is big (500+g).
  22. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    50
    Loc:
    Central Maine
    Just curious how this setup works out? I'm picking up a Garn Jr this Friday. I'm still deciding on a backup heat source. I think I'll install the heating elements before I fill it, just because its a minimal cost and I'd rather just put them in and not use them than have to drain it to install them later. My other thought is to use a heatpump water heater, maybe even a couple to heat the water in the garn. How does your heat pump work keeping your storage warm? What temps can you get it to? Any information would be great.
  23. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    679
    Loc:
    Searsport, Maine
    The Nyletherms deliver 6000 btus/hr. The optimal temperature is about 125F. Hotter than that and efficiency drops.
    If you have a big tank and it is well insulated, it works very well.
  24. kopeck

    kopeck Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    516
    Loc:
    Maine
    I think it would work well with a Garn assuming the Garn has some provisions for piping the HP in (and think it does).

    K
  25. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    50
    Loc:
    Central Maine
    Hi Tom,

    Thanks for the info, you seem to be giving me plenty of that lately. I got the Nyletherm up and running paired with my boilermate. Its working great so far. I like it so much I'm thinking perhaps another unit or maybe 2 might be an adequate temporary backup for a Garn Jr.

Share This Page