Heating from downstairs (I know..I know)

[Dustin]

Long time burner, and member...but sadly I moved last year to a house without a wood stove

Anyway, I'm in the market again. My new to me house is two stories, 1800 square feet. About 1000 downstairs (daylight basement) 800 upstairs. Upstairs is where my kitchen, big bathroom, dining room and bedrooms live. Downstairs is where the TV, ham radio (nerd) laundry room and another bathroom live.

Downstairs is also complete with a gas fireplace.

Putting a stove upstairs is basically out. Downstairs is most likely where an insert would go.

The stairway is centrally located but fairly narrow and steep. (1970's)

I have a heat pump, which is cheap. But I flat just miss heating with wood.


Which leads to my question... I know this isn't the best scenario but...has anyone, ever, ever had any luck getting some heat upstairs when heating with a daylight basement stove? I understand it's not ideal, but is there a chance?

Later, we'll talk about stove options..

Shot of the proposed stove room. Please ignore the mess

 

[JA600L]

I heat from a daylight basement. No problem at all after I insulated the block walls.

I personally would go for a rear vent stove over an insert, but that's just me.

It might help to replace some of those ceiling tiles with grids to get the heat up to the floor above them quicker. The ceiling tiles will direct the heat to the outside walls .

 

[Woody Stover]

If that's the stairs where the open door is, that dropped section where the beam is might block heated air flow to the staircase to some degree. You would have better luck with the stove close to the stairway. Maybe a small flan on the floor at the base of the stairs, moving cool air down the bottom of the stairway and into the room, would help. Insert, or a stove with a blower...you need to heat a bunch of air and get it moving.

 

[Talegas]

I'm following this thread now. I'll be placing my serenity in the basement of the house of a raised ranch/split entry.

Mine has a nifty window to the stairs which I think should allow for some hot air to go up the stairs, and I would love to do that swapping of the panels too (ceiling) as there is NO insulation material behind them.

 

[venator260]

I heat my poorly insulated house from an uninsulated basement. The stove about 15 feet from the bottom of the basement steps.

It takes about a day to get the convection currents going. After that, if I keep everything warm, it works pretty well. I have been keeping the basement and the first floor (1000 sq ft) comfortable so far with 3 reloads a day in an NC 30. The upstairs gets a little chilly, so we have been using the baseboards at night to bring the temp up another 5-10 degrees or so.

It seems to me to heat the upstairs, downstairs will have to be at the hot side of comfortable for most people. My dad heats from a larger basement, and his basement is usually in the low 80's. Because my stove is in a smaller room (since there's a support wall as opposed to a more open beam) the corner of the basement with the stove will get into the high 80's low 90's about 2 hours into a burn cycle.

 

[tsquini]

I see a vent. Do you have forced hot air? I have hooked up a cold air intake to pull the air from the ceiling. When the furnace turns on it circulates the hot air around the house.

Other than that, is easier to move cold air than hot air. Place a fan at the top of the stairs blowing air down the stairs. The hope is to circulate the hot air back up the stairs.

 

[tarzan]

Heating the downstairs with the stove while getting some extra heat upstairs would be easily doable but trying to heat the whole house from there without the help of the heat pump may result in the downstairs being uncomfortable warm.

My dad heated his home from close to the same spot in a remarkably similar basement with an old Fisher replica for many years but now has a heat pump and just uses the stove for assistance on the coldest days/nights. It's usually around 80*F in his basement if he's using the stove as stand alone heat.

Your results may vary depending on insulation and a good fan setup. My dad never ran fans but in the last few years anything under 75*F and he's looking for a long sleeve shirt.

 

[JA600L]

Heating the downstairs with the stove while getting some extra heat upstairs would be easily doable but trying to heat the whole house from there without the help of the heat pump may result in the downstairs being uncomfortable warm.

My dad heated his home from close to the same spot in a remarkably similar basement with an old Fisher replica for many years but now has a heat pump and just uses the stove for assistance on the coldest days/nights. It's usually around 80*F in his basement if he's using the stove as stand alone heat.

Your results may vary depending on insulation and a good fan setup. My dad never ran fans but in the last few years anything under 75*F and he's looking for a long sleeve shirt.

This all depends on how your house responds.

My house just about sucks the heat upstairs. Then it delivers the cold air to the basement. I have a wall in the center of the basement with the stove in one end and the sitting area in the other. The staircase is in the center. The heat tends to climb the stairs before coming over to the sitting area. It's still warm though.

I personally think radiant stoves do better at basement heating.

A convective stove tends to warm the air more and get it moving.

A radiant stove thoroughly warms up the surrounding room and furniture.

However, warming up the basement is really needed before it can effectively move the heat upstairs. Otherwise, it keeps soaking it up or it cools off before it heads up.

If you get the slab and (insulated) walls thoroughly heated it will send the heat upstairs. I think some people focus only on getting that warm air upstairs and ignore the fact that the basement is sucking up 75% of it.

That's why I say expose some of that 2nd story floor and let some radiant heat hit the bottom of it. Seal and insulate the rim joists really well. Also, consider you are putting the stove in a potential negative pressure plane. This may effect the chimney and air supply. Watch out for the stack effect.

 

[Dustin]

JA, good point.

What ceiling tiles do you speak of? One thing I dislike is my wood floor upstairs always cold, even with the heat pump running. I imagine with a stove running downstairs, and the tiles you speak of, this problem might go away?

I have always wanted a free standing stove but have never owned a house that plays well with that. My fireplace opening is 28 inches high, and the hearth is 15 inches wide. I haven't really found anything that I can set there...yet

 

[weatherguy]

I've been heating from a similar set up for about 9 years now. I originally had the princess insert and it did ok but needed help from the furnace on cold days. I have the progress hybrid now and it does much better. My stove is near the stairway and I have a vent on the other side of the room to get a loop going. You just have to play around and figure out how to move the air.

 

[JA600L]

You really want steady output too. A large 3.0 cuft stove or larger would be best. Temperature dives may take a while to recover from.

Pay a lot of attention to your attic. Air seal and insulate it as good as possible. That will be your best friend.

White Plastic Perforated Tile/return with 1/2" Perforations (#4994w-125-50) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DB45B0Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_Uf.ryb4KZB8ZN

 

[BIGChrisNH]

I heat from the basement too, and have little problem heating my whole house as long as I have fires consistently. The advice about temperature dips being tough to recover from is good advice. Once everything is warm, it's warm and won't have to be warmed up. If I keep my stove going all the time, the floor above is warm on your feet, it's great. But it does depend on the house and layout. You can cut some registers in the floor to help with heat movement too, I've got three of them in the basement, and they all let a good amount of heat upstairs. The cats and dogs all spend time or sleep around the registers, so that's a good barometer of effectively moving heat, haha. I also have a cat door through the door to the part of my basement with the boiler, washer, dryer, litter boxes, etc., and that almost functions as a cold air kit as the cooler air from the bulkhead is sucked through the cat door feeding my stove, with the warmer air riding up along the ceiling and heading up the stairs and through the registers.

 

[Dobish]

my stove is in the basement (walkout sort of basement) with poor insulation, and when the stove room is 74º, the upstairs will stay around 68º in the main room. The rooms further away from the bizarre staircase are a little colder, but not by that much. On an overnight burn, or when the stove temp drops below 300º, the upstairs will cool off to around 62. We are normally doing 3-4 loads a day (7am, 3pm, 8pm, 11pm), burning 24-7. We recently installed a fan upstairs that we run in reverse, and that helps circulate. I also will run the furnace for 10-15 minutes every morning to bring the upstairs temps to 66º while the fire is getting back up to temp. Once it is up to temp, it will stay pretty warm. When the sun is out, it makes it even better, since we have south and west facing windows that get a ton of sun.

Our bedroom is down a long hallway around a corner, down another hallway, and is always 10-15º colder than anywhere else in the house. I would love it if we could get some heat from the woodstove in there, but oh well, we just use blankets!

 

[georgepds]

My stove is on the first floor, it keeps both floors of the house warm. The first floor might be 75, and the second about 10 degrees cooler. Heat travels up a stairway. One difference is the Hall illustrated in the diagram is open from first floor to cathedral ceiling in the second, allowing fro a very big bay for heat transfer

But, most times, even with the hall door closed, the upstairs is cozy. Might be the heat radiation from the exposed double wall chimney, or from conduction through the un-insulated second floor

 

[Dustin]

This is some great information. My house stays decently warm with the heat pump in our tempered climate here in Oregon. In the middle of the heating season my electric bill usually doesn't top 150 bucks a month. I keep the house around 68.

However, downstairs where the stove is seems constantly colder then my upstairs. My upstairs is where the thermostat for the heat pump lives. If I want the downstairs to stay at 68, the upstairs thermostat needs to be set at about 75. So my walkout basement is constantly about 62 to 64.

You guys are making me feel pretty good about putting a stove down there. I don't plan to heat just with the stove, but rather supplement and keep the downstairs warm when I'm down there, which isnt all the time.


Now, what I'm really wrestling with... I'm thinking about trying to make a englander 30, or some other free standing stove work on my hearth. Or, going out and picking up a used EPA certified insert.

And then, there's the blaze king / Woodstock thought. I'm feeling like a cat stove would keep my temperature downstairs more constant. But, I paid 4K for my heat pump, installed. I'm wrestling with paying 1000 less then that for a stove and liner.

Any hearth stove guys reading this? How did you tackle this ? My hearth ledge is about 16 inches from fireplace opening to floor. Wondering if I could trim the legs on an englander and gain an inch...

Or, stick with an insert and call it a day.

Thinking out loud..

 

[JA600L]

The Ideal Steel with the lowest leg height has rear venting specs to the center of the flue of 24.5". They had a sale last weekend where the base model was $1742 (they may throw you a bone). I'm not sure how much it would cost to ship to Oregon but if you called I'm sure they would throw you a number and answer any questions. The Englander is a top venting only stove and requires a lot of R value to the hearth.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

We, too, heat from our walkout basement. We bought the insert (Lopi Revere) after we spent a week without gas service. We wanted something that would radiate heat during a power outage and had a cooktop. We originally intended just to heat the large room in the basement. We keep the thermostat at 68 for upstairs when people are home (most of the time), but that made the basement much colder. Now that we have the stove, the basement is everybody's favorite place, and our upstairs is warmer than the thermostat setting.

We have a beam that crosses our basement and keeps the hottest air trapped away from the staircase (our staircase is more open than yours). After a few years with the stove we did (in consultation with the city inspector) cut some vent near that beam and one on the far side of the room. That helps move the hottest air upstairs. I wouldn't be quick to take that option. We are happy with it, but I'd spend a long time seeing how things work in your configuration before trying it.

We do have a natural gas furnace and will run it when it's really cold out. We're adding lots of BTU's to the envelope from the basement even with a stove that's undersized for our square footage.

A few more thoughts later but I've just been called for a diaper emergency.

 

[Woody Stover]

You can cut some registers in the floor to help with heat movement too, I've got three of them in the basement, and they all let a good amount of heat upstairs.

we did (in consultation with the city inspector) cut some vent near that beam and one on the far side of the room. That helps move the hottest air upstairs. I wouldn't be quick to take that option. We are happy with it, but I'd spend a long time seeing how things work in your configuration before trying it.

Yes, depending on your jurisdiction, it may be a code violation unless the vents you cut are equipped with fusible links to prevent the spread of a fire.

 

[rudysmallfry]

I have your typical 1970's raised ranch. If I had to do it again, I would have put my stove in the far corner opposite my stairs. It really would have helped to have line if sight to the staircase to get the heat moving up to the main floor. Heat seems to resist traveling around corners, so for now I've punched a 10"x10" square in my wall for the heat to go through. It works great, but I'm sure I'll be needing to seal that back up if I ever decide to sell the house. I keep my main floor at 64. With the stove going, I can get the main floor up to 67 and it seems to hold for a good 5 hours after the stove is down to coals. I do have a soapstone stove, so that does hold the heat longer.

I personally would not bother with floor registers. Besides being unsafe, they don't do much in the whole grand scheme of things. The bigger bang for your bucks are sealing/insulating your attic and making sure your doors and windows are good.

 

[BradleyW]

I heat my cape cod with a wood stove on the first floor. The advantage I have is that the second floor is all bedrooms, and we like it to be cooler up there. You have non-bedroom living space on both floors, and I think it is inevitable that the basement will be too hot if you want the upstairs to be comfortable. I think you'll be able to move some heat around but not enough to make a big enough difference. I hate to be a downer on this but personally I wouldn't get the stove, especially in your mild climate.

 

[JA600L]

This was our first super cold night here in PA. 27 with a windchill of 12. I filled up the Ideal Steels belly downstairs last night. It's currently 75 degrees on the upstairs thermostat. Big huge coals glowing inside the stove. This is what you want.

If you get a big stove with a big belly and you let it rip you will get heat. I also insulated, air sealed, and installed new windows. It all adds up.

Starting occasional fires will get old and the basement slab will take hours to warm up. You are going to want to keep it running.