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Heating water....

Post in 'The Green Room' started by James02, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Messages:
    93
    Loc:
    coastal maine
    Switched to Steibel Eltron air source heat pump (http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/accelera.html) from oil two years ago. The water heater is about 4 feet from the woodstove in the basement. My electric bill went up on average $5 per month after the water heater was installed and I have not burned oil in two years.
    woodgeek likes this.

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  2. bmblank

    bmblank Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    698
    Loc:
    Michigan
    I heat my domestic water with wood. I've got a coil running through my heat storage tank.
  3. simple.serf

    simple.serf Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    283
    Loc:
    Sherman, NY
    Dino Juice heats the water here. Working on getting it over to wood, though.
  4. billb3

    billb3 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,518
    Loc:
    SE Mass
    oil
    have a two coil tank with the bottom coil planned for 2 solar panels
  5. ChadD

    ChadD Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Loc:
    Connecticut
    Oil with a tankless coil off my boiler for now but I am thinking about installing a indirect hot water heater so it doesn't cycle as often. My buddy can get a Crown megastor 40 with his discount at the plumbing supply shop and install it for $650
  6. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    15,644
    Loc:
    Unity/Bangor, Maine
    Propane . . . was getting it off my oil boiler for a long time, but I was constantly having issues with that system.

    I sometimes wonder if I wouldn't do better by switching to one of those propane on-demand heaters . . . I have always hated the sound of my boiler or heater kicking on to heat up water when there is no one using the hot water.
  7. bag of hammers

    bag of hammers Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,189
    Loc:
    Northern ON
    Not sure this means anything, but the guy that installed my propane heater a few years ago actually steered me away from that (on demand) option, when I asked about going to propane hot water one day. Something about the very cold water temps incoming where I am (pulling from Lake Superior), 240K BTU's when firing (sucking lots of gas while trying to bring that cold water up to temp), cost of heater, install, repair / maintenance issues (maybe it was a younger technology then?), especially since I'm out in the boonies (this is not something I could repair myself), etc etc. etc. Apparently they had a few less than satisfied customers. What I got from the conversations was is that it's a great concept, but to be careful about expectations, especially under less than optimal conditions. I have no idea otherwise if they generally work well, but it was in interesting response from someone who could have otherwise tried to sell me $2000 worth of equipment and installation.
  8. NickDL

    NickDL Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Loc:
    Souderton, Pa
    Our home is all electric, so our water heater is electric.
  9. wingsfan

    wingsfan Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    367
    Loc:
    Jackson,Mi.
    Our water heater is natural gas,as is all of our appliances. Since we have been burning he wood stove our gas bill has been averaging half of what we used to use.
    I figure the stove sould pay for itself in 2 1/2 years.
  10. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,854
    Loc:
    SE PA
    My oil boiler with a tankless coil was costing me ~$1100/yr just for (crappy) DHW. I figured electric would be ~$400/year, and give good ROI. I actually went for a heat pump water heater (HPWH), which costs me ~$200/year instead, and had the boiler scrapped.
    Augie likes this.
  11. ddahlgren

    ddahlgren Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    475
    Loc:
    SE CT
    If it was new techlology at the time then there are groing pains and in the boonies cutting edge is probably not the answer. I wonder if having the water go into a 30 gallon holding tank or small electric water heater set to 75 degrees the go from there to the on demand one. or possibly a solar panel. If I was in the boonies and no doubt last to get electric power if it goes out I would have ways to do the same thing without power. Woodstove to heat and potentially cook even if to just warm up some soup or a gas stove to cook a small generator to run the well pump refridgerator and washing machine wood or gas hot water that is a bit old school and needs no electricity. When i was around 7 my grandparents used to have a gas / kerosene stove a gas refridgerator several kerosene storm lamps and a gas water heater. athere was a converted from coal oil furnace and a coal pot belly stove in the living room almost never used. I used to kid them about all the very old time things they used to live day to day. My grandfathers answer was 'have you ever been cold or hungry here when there is no power for days on end?' a smart old guy. If I lived well off the grid in distance I think that is the thinking I would use along with a can I fix with the tools and knowledge I have about it. It is the direction I am headed personally..
    bag of hammers likes this.
  12. sesmith

    sesmith Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Messages:
    203
    Loc:
    Central NY
    Desuperheater that runs off of my GSHP. The 40 gal desuperheater tank feeds a standard electric waterheater that boosts the temp. as needed. The electric tank is on a timer and only comes on when the rate is cheaper at night.
  13. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,242
    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    80 gallon electric, heated also by my wood boiler & storage via sidearm heat exchanger.

    Heated solely by wood now, and hopefully all non-heating season too.

    Had an oil boiler with tankless coil - the most inefficient way there is to heat DHW in the non-heating season. My now-empty oil tank will be following it out the door this summer.
  14. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,728
    Loc:
    Eastern Central PA
    My coal stoker produces hot water 24/7 whether i need it or not for heat so it is essentially a by product of my heating system.
  15. Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle

    Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    5,071
    Loc:
    Ridge, LI, NY
    Switched to an electric HWH 3 years ago. The OB quit, and years ago there was a separate OHW in the basment, and the plumbing hook ups were still there, so it was easy peasy.

    3 showers a day + dishes (clothes in cold water, usually), the LIPA bill went up $40 a month, but not paying for oil.

    Bringing the oil back to heat 1/2 the house, probably, so I'll use the oil burner (with coil) for HW in the winter, and swap out to the electric in summer. Until I can figure some thing else out.

    Solar is out. For now.
  16. nate vignola

    nate vignola New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Solar ( 3- 4'x10' panels) by summer, pellet (Harmon P61) by winter. Insulated 275 gallon HDPE carboy thermal storage. 3 heat exchangers mounted in the carboy, two go-zintas and one go-zouta. Pellet stove feeds one input, solar feeds another. One large exchanger for high volume feed to my 50 gallon water heater. My house hold uses ~1000 gallons a week, no oil, and minimal electric (when I forget to fill the stove or if it rains for 3 days straight).
    flhpi likes this.
  17. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,958
    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
    How hot how can you get that without a problem? I know nothing about plastics. You insulated yourself? Sounds interesting. Thanks.
  18. nate vignola

    nate vignola New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    It's really just an oversized 1/4" thick milk jug. I run mine with a max limit of 170F. The technical temp limit of HDPE is 180F w/o deformation. I procured the tank locally ($100) with a metal shipping frame and made a plywood/rigid foam wrap for it. It could use another layer of 1" foam board, as I can feel some warmth in the bags of pellets that are stacked against it.
  19. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    6,958
    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
    Thanks. Seems like a cost-effective solution.
  20. Redbarn

    Redbarn Burning Hunk

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    208
    Loc:
    SE PA
    Geyser heat pump water heater. Oil as backup.
    Switching from oil to HPWH saved us 1 gall of oil per day.
  21. nate vignola

    nate vignola New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Total on the tank was about $500, including the exchangers. The main btu extraction exchanger is 7 loops of 1/2" pex, 100' long (holds about 1 gallon per loop) all in parallel. If I was going to do it again, it would be copper.
  22. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
    Doesn't that 180 deformation number make you nervous?
  23. nate vignola

    nate vignola New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    29
    Not at all. 180 is a deformation temp, and since the tank is only holding standing water there is no pressure. There is a metal frame around the carboy that supports the HDPE, so it would be uncharacteristic to fail. These carboys are designed to withstand international shipping conditions, which is a fairly dynamic environment. I would worry if the operating temp was beyond the failure temp of the material, maybe 220, but since the water would be a vapor and vent, I'm not worried.
  24. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,958
    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
    Thanks.
  25. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,728
    Loc:
    Eastern Central PA
    Would like to do some solar hot water some day.

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