Hedge Fireworks

[Missouri Frontier]

All those familiar with Osage Orange (Hedge) know that it loves to pop and throw sparks while burning. Why does it do this? I've heard various reasons. The most common is moisture pockets. From my experience this moring moisture pockets seem unlikely. I loaded 4 large splits last night about 7pm, cranked the thermostat down and went to bed. 7am this morning I went to load again and found quite a bit of wood chard but, still solid. I cranked the thermostat up and the fireworks show started. I'm not talking an occasional pop. I'm taking WWIII. So, the wood in the stove baked for 12 hours and still had "moisture pockets"? just doesn't seem right to me. There has to be another explaination. Hopefully one of you Hedge masters know.

 

[bsruther]

I can't think of any other wood that sparks like Osage. I've never really had it pop and spit an ember across the room, it's more like a sparkler, a sometimes violent sparkler.
Many times, when it sparks, the main spark will branch out into little sparks, rarely making a popping sound, it's more of a ffft sound. Seems to occur when a lot of air is suddenly introduced to the firebox, like when the door is opened. It also seems like the hotter the fire, the more violent the sparks.

 

[Jon1270]

I've had black locust and mulberry behave that way, and I've mentioned the moisture pocket idea here because I've read it elsewhere. I don't find it terribly satisfying either, but, it may not be far off. If you figure that a spark is basically a tiny piece of glowing charcoal that's been blown off of the surface of a bigger piece of glowing charcoal, then you can guess that it's been blown off by some rapidly expanding gas trapped in some pocket just below the surface. That rapidly expanding gas doesn't need to be steam. It could just as easily be some other chemical compound that's solid or liquid at one temperature but suddenly and forcefully expands into a gas when its temperature rises across some threshold, as it might when a blast of fresh air increases the rate of combustion in the material around it. I doubt you'll find a more specific explanation unless you consult a chemist with a background in wood combustion.

 

[Clyde S. Dale]

All those familiar with Osage Orange (Hedge) know that it loves to pop and throw sparks while burning. Why does it do this? I've heard various reasons. The most common is moisture pockets. From my experience this moring moisture pockets seem unlikely. I loaded 4 large splits last night about 7pm, cranked the thermostat down and went to bed. 7am this morning I went to load again and found quite a bit of wood chard but, still solid. I cranked the thermostat up and the fireworks show started. I'm not talking an occasional pop. I'm taking WWIII. So, the wood in the stove baked for 12 hours and still had "moisture pockets"? just doesn't seem right to me. There has to be another explaination. Hopefully one of you Hedge masters know.

I'm just jealous you have hedge to burn. We have it all around us here but I've never been lucky enough to come upon any in my scrounging efforts. One of these days...

 

[Missouri Frontier]

I'm just jealous you have hedge to burn. We have it all around us here but I've never been lucky enough to come upon any in my scrounging efforts. One of these days...

you ever make it out this way stop by. We are loaded with it. you are welcome to some.

 

[Missouri Frontier]

I've had black locust and mulberry behave that way, and I've mentioned the moisture pocket idea here because I've read it elsewhere. I don't find it terribly satisfying either, but, it may not be far off. If you figure that a spark is basically a tiny piece of glowing charcoal that's been blown off of the surface of a bigger piece of glowing charcoal, then you can guess that it's been blown off by some rapidly expanding gas trapped in some pocket just below the surface. That rapidly expanding gas doesn't need to be steam. It could just as easily be some other chemical compound that's solid or liquid at one temperature but suddenly and forcefully expands into a gas when its temperature rises across some threshold, as it might when a blast of fresh air increases the rate of combustion in the material around it. I doubt you'll find a more specific explanation unless you consult a chemist with a background in wood combustion.

Thanks Jon. The moisture argument just doesnt sit well in my partly educated, half pickled brain. fuzzy physics? I've heard of fuzzy math. perhaps fuzzy thermodynamics? yeah thats it. I'm going to make a tee-shirt for fuzzy thermodynamics.

 

[HackBerry]

I notice it starts to sparkle when fresh oxygen hits the log as it's turning to coals. It can't be moisture because I've burnt extremely dry Osage that had been dead for years. I've noticed when I bang a nice old dry split on the brick hearth it sounds more like a piece of steel than wood. It seems like the older and dryer splits sparkle the most but only when fresh air hits them. I've got access to about a mile of Osage planted along a hedge row from the Dust Bowl era. The stuff is everywhere in Northwest Oklahoma.

 

[Missouri Frontier]

I doubt you'll find a more specific explanation unless you consult a chemist with a background in wood combustion.

heck you can't swing a dead cat on this forum without hitting two or three of those guys. Right?

 

[Missouri Frontier]

I notice it starts to sparkle when fresh oxygen hits the log as it's turning to coals. It can't be moisture because I've burnt extremely dry Osage that had been dead for years. I've noticed when I bang a nice old dry split on the brick hearth it sounds more like a piece of steel than wood. It seems like the older and dryer splits sparkle the most but only when fresh air hits them. I've got access to about a mile of Osage planted along a hedge row from the Dust Bowl era. The stuff is everywhere in Northwest Oklahoma.

yeah Hackberry I think you guys are in the natural range for "the yellow wonder wood". Btw welcome to the forum!

 

[JustWood]

Could be minerals in the wood.

 

[HackBerry]

yeah Hackberry I think you guys are in the natural range for "the yellow wonder wood". Btw welcome to the forum!

Thanks. We are in the extreme tip of it's natural range but it was extensively planted along property lines and pastures during the Dust Bowl to prevent soil erosion and also as cheap hedge row for cattle. My Grandfather cut a lot of it out for fence posts around 50 years ago. He's gone but the fence posts look as good as ever...they are in better shape than the barbed wire. I could cut a lot of it but it's really hard on chains and I've got easier stuff to get. I do keep some around for the really cold days.

 

[Missouri Frontier]

The WPA? I think thats it. We have a bunch of that here too. miles and miles of wind breaks. I get as much of it as I can. When it comes to keeping my cold blooded wife warm it's the cats PJ's.

 

[HackBerry]

The WPA? I think thats it. We have a bunch of that here too. miles and miles of wind breaks. I get as much of it as I can. When it comes to keeping my cold blooded wife warm it's the cats PJ's.

I'm sure it was the WPA. I don't have a stove yet so I'm burning in an open fireplace. On really cold days I'll put a nice big Osage split in the back (to somewhat control the sparks) after I have a nice fire going. Once it burns down to coals I could forge iron! That stuff is incredibly hot. I've noticed the coals even glow with a much brighter yellowish color.

 

[Brewmonster]

you can guess that it's been blown off by some rapidly expanding gas trapped in some pocket just below the surface. That rapidly expanding gas doesn't need to be steam.

I'm thinking that must be it. After all, what is flame except the volatile gases expressed from the wood by its reaction to being heated? Perhaps the very dense structure of these woods is capable of holding those gases trapped inside at higher pressures than other woods might be able to hold. Then extra oxygen ramps up the reaction, makes the pressure spike, and POW!

Not that I'm a "chemist with a background in wood combustion" or anything. Just my intuition.

 

[bsruther]

It will also spark when it's moved around with the poker.

It's great wood, but I'm just as happy to get oak or locust.
The only time I've really burnt any of it this year was during last weeks deep freeze.
When I come across it in my stacks, I usually set it aside in it's own stack.
We have a lot of open door fires in the evening and don't need any pyrotechnic displays.
It will all get burned up when I get a new stove...never by itself though.

 

[osagebow]

It's a very oily wood, I always thought the gasses might come from volitile organic stuff boiling off. Locust and mulberry seem oily to me also.

 

[bsruther]

It's a very oily wood, I always thought the gasses might come from volitile organic stuff boiling off. Locust and mulberry seem oily to me also.

Very sticky when fresh cut. I hate getting the sap on me.

 

[Missouri Frontier]

you all bring up some good points. I love its heat. the burn times are fantastic. I honestly think some of the reason I like it is because its pretty unique stuff, even by firewood standards. thats what I like to do with all things natural and unique. stick em in a stove and burn em up!

 

[Soundchasm]

I wonder if the wood is so hard that when it "breaks" it's more like shattering glass? I now pretend I'm Harry Potter with a wand whenever I stick a poker into that stuff. Maybe if I hit the books harder I'd learn to control it.

Bic lighters make tiny sparks. I wonder if there's flint in the wood?

 

[Missouri Frontier]

I wonder if the wood is so hard that when it "breaks" it's more like shattering glass? I now pretend I'm Harry Potter with a wand whenever I stick a poker into that stuff. Maybe if I hit the books harder I'd learn to control it.

Bic lighters make tiny sparks. I wonder if there's flint in the wood?

 

[BobUrban]

I don't think that is true flint in your Bic lighter.

Regarding osage there is a ton of oil in that wood and I will speculate this is what makes it not only rot resistant but potentially ROT PROOF! I think you could out last a steel fence post with and osage fence post - literally.

I have pulled hedge logs out of a ditch that is filled with water for about 1/2 the year - stuff was laying in the ditch for years. The outside was very weather checked and looked rotted. Just under that was what is known as bowyers gold - perfect, clean, yellow wood that I made some really nice bows from. You can take a 40-60 yr old osage stave(log split used to make a self bow), trim off the outer later or dark brown and soak it in water and the water will change to orange from the remaining oil. I've done it many times prepping a stave for sinew backing. The stuff is full of oil.

The bow in this picture was made from ditch wood.

 

[Paulywalnut]

I notice osage and Mulberry are similar. Locust too somewhat. All are tight grained. Osage pops the most I don't see how you could burn it in a open fireplace without a burnt rug.

 

[osagebow]

The bow in this picture was made from ditch wood.

That's a beauty!

 

[HackBerry]

It has to be volatile oils. I don't think I've ever seen it blow embers out like Mulberry. The sparks are more like fairies spreading pixie dust.

 

[bsruther]

It has to be volatile oils. I don't think I've ever seen it blow embers out like Mulberry. The sparks are more like fairies spreading pixie dust.

They'll blow right through a screen.