help, help, help, help, help installing insert

[wowser]

I am trying to install an insert into my old fireplace. I bought a Century insert, s.s. flue liner and thought I could just chisel out some firebrick to open up the narrow flue opening (about 3" going all the way across the fire box). There's no damper, just an open slit. I popped out one of the top firebox bricks in the back, center and there's more brick behind it. I guess that's part of the fire shelf--which has 1" of soot after it was just cleaned yesterday by a pro btw : /

Not sure what to do at this point. I don't want to destroy my fireplace. At this point I think I should hire a pro, but the few places I called didn't even know what a wood burning insert was. I need a PRO who's got experience with this stuff but because I am in Orange County, California, they really don't have experience with wood burners.

The biggest problem the insert will stick out about 7" because the firewall is in the way once the liner is attached. I would need to remove a good chunk of the back wall to fit. Is that safe?

Any advice or recommendations ARE APPRECIATED! Already invested $1200 in this and would like to see it through. Thank you

 

[wowser]

One more thing: is the firebox integrity important in an insert install? If I cut out half the top/back bricks would it affect the integrity and safety of an insert. I realize it would need to be rebuilt to convert back to a standard fireplace.

 

[BrotherBart]

I have two degrees, have burned in stoves for 40 years and have been to two goat ropings and a world's fair and for the life of me I can't figure out what that is a picture of. The last time you posted it either.

Take a pic of the fireplace, then one from the floor of the fireplace looking up so we can figure out what you have there.

Thanks

 

[wowser]

I know, and I am sorry! It's the back wall of the firebox looking straight up from the ground. The dark slit across is the flue! I am guessing it's an unconventional fireplace (like everything else in my stupid old house). I'll get pix tomorrow.

 

[rwhite]

Looks like there's a door (fireplace door) on there that will have to come off to get a better look at it.

 

[wowser]

Here are some labels that may help you understand the photo. There is no door to be removed.

 

[wowser]

if you mean that screen, I did remove it. I will try and get pix tomorrow. Any recommendations on a good installer in the Orange County, Cali area?

 

[fossil]

...Any recommendations on a good installer in the Orange County, Cali area?

Sorry, I've no specific recommendation to pass along...but I think this is exactly what you need before you go any further...professional "boots on the ground". This is not the typical fireplace we see here, in fact I doubt many here have ever seen such a configuration (I know I've certainly not). I really don't think we're going to be able to provide much guidance to you online. We do have a few members in the SoCal area...though not many. Perhaps one of them will catch wind of this thread. The one piece of advice I would offer is that you do not start chipping out masonry elements anywhere in that fireplace without having first consulted on-scene with a professional sweep/installer. Good luck with the project...looks like it could prove challenging. Rick

 

[Eaglecraft]

I am trying to install an insert into my old fireplace. I bought a Century insert, s.s. flue liner and thought I could just chisel out some firebrick to open up the narrow flue opening (about 3" going all the way across the fire box). There's no damper, just an open slit. I popped out one of the top firebox bricks in the back, center and there's more brick behind it. I guess that's part of the fire shelf--which has 1" of soot after it was just cleaned yesterday by a pro btw : /

Not sure what to do at this point. I don't want to destroy my fireplace. At this point I think I should hire a pro, but the few places I called didn't even know what a wood burning insert was. I need a PRO who's got experience with this stuff but because I am in Orange County, California, they really don't have experience with wood burners.

The biggest problem the insert will stick out about 7" because the firewall is in the way once the liner is attached. I would need to remove a good chunk of the back wall to fit. Is that safe?

Any advice or recommendations ARE APPRECIATED! Already invested $1200 in this and would like to see it through. Thank you

It's not uncommon to have to remove some bricks or blocks to provide enough space for a SS liner. Once this is done, the fireplace cannot be used as a "fireplace" any longer without repairing the damage that was done to the masonry.

If firebricks are removed to make the opening large enough for a liner, the safety concern at that point is "clearance to combustibles." There should be more masonry behind the blocks that you removed, and that's good because those bricks provide the necessary clearance from combustibles. The thing is that you don't know what's back there until you look. Sloppy workmanship results in 2X4's, rags, paper and other junk that is hidden from view. This stuff is left behind by the workers who built the fireplace.

So once you have taken out the bricks you need to look and see what you've got. It's seems as though there should be a few brick masons in southern CA who know how to build a fireplace, especially for high end homes. They could advise you about your situation and how to proceed safely.

You state that "the insert will stick out about 7." It's not uncommon for the hearth to require an extension in the front of the insert to meet code. In other words, the front of the stove will "stick out" from the fireplace opening, to the point that a wood floor, or carpeting must be modified for spark, ember, and heat protection.

Good luck with your install.

 

[Eaglecraft]

if you mean that screen, I did remove it. I will try and get pix tomorrow. Any recommendations on a good installer in the Orange County, Cali area?

Check this web site: http://nficertified.org/index.html

and this site for the name of installers:

http://nficertified.org/pages_consumers/consumers-1.html

The National Fireplace Institute can provide the names of individuals certified to be knowledgeable about woodstoves, fireplaces, etc.

 

[begreen]

Good suggestion. There is also the National Chimney Sweep guild (type in your zipcode on the left to find a dealer):
http://www.ncsg.org/

And the Chimney Safety Institute of America:
http://www.csia.org/

 

[wowser]

Gotta a pro coming on Sunday. Hopefully he can get this baby working!

 

[begreen]

Good plan. Hang in there, you'll be warm soon.

 

[wowser]

got a guy out here to do the install; total PRO. He wouldn't let me help even though he was by himself. He had the coolest electric dolly to just roll the beast into the firebox. After an hour of jackhammering out a hole for the liner, he installed it nearly flush with the fireplace face. We decided it looked better without the surround, only using the existing fire screen with filigree at the top. There's a 5" gap at the top which I can cover later or just leave it. What do you all think?

 

[tfdchief]

Looks fantastic, glad it all worked out for you!

 

[begreen]

I think that's a happy ending, congratulations. It looks good without the surround. I wouldn't have a problem leaving it just like that. How's it heating for you?

 

[wowser]

thanks! Everyone here is so helpful and friendly : )

It's heating great, but I have a lot to learn. There's a fine adjustment between smoldering fire and hell fire with that air intake slider. I haven't packed the box yet so no overnight burns. Of course, it was 80° today, so it's not necessary and not really working at peak potential.

Had a BAD rattle in the blower unit. After unsuccessfully trying to contact Century, I decided to take the blower off and see what I could do. A couple of sprays of 5-way penetrant seemed to do the trick.

Been taking IR temp readings around the fireplace, walls, mantel, etc. What's a safe temp? I'm getting around 80-90° but want to know what the safety zone is. Thanks!

 

[rwhite]

Don't know about what is a normal temp but here is what I'm getting with a fireplace insert very similar to yours: All the masonary to the sides and above the insert pretty much stay around room temp. The lip on the wood mantle which on my stove is 30" above the insert catches alot of heat and it gets about 140. By the way I like the use of the screen. Only thing I can see to make it look any better would be to let the stove cool and paint the inside of the firebox with some stove black.

 

[shawneyboy]

Glad to see this ended well for you. Looks nice, stay warm.

 

[SolarBrian]

Wood won't start out gassing until over 200F. You don't want that to happen. Seems like you have plenty of margin at <100F.

 

[jjs777_fzr]

thanks! Everyone here is so helpful and friendly : )

It's heating great, but I have a lot to learn. There's a fine adjustment between smoldering fire and hell fire with that air intake slider. I haven't packed the box yet so no overnight burns. Of course, it was 80° today, so it's not necessary and not really working at peak potential.

Had a BAD rattle in the blower unit. After unsuccessfully trying to contact Century, I decided to take the blower off and see what I could do. A couple of sprays of 5-way penetrant seemed to do the trick.

Been taking IR temp readings around the fireplace, walls, mantel, etc. What's a safe temp? I'm getting around 80-90° but want to know what the safety zone is. Thanks!

For the rattle another poster recently used some stove door gasket and either applied it above or below the blower unit where it mounts.
I wonder if your rattle is not fixed and the rattle just happened to go away with the use of spray ?