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help prevent a divorce ;) and pick a stove

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by ianandholly, Aug 20, 2006.

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  1. ianandholly

    ianandholly New Member

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    Husband and I are going to buy a stove within the next few weeks. We need to come to a decision and we cannot make up our minds. Our home is less than 1400sq ft with the stove being put into a masonry fireplace (43 wide x 36 high). He likes the hearthstone heritage, i'm ok with it but I much prefer the look of the Vermont Casting's Encore. Also I've seen the pics of the Lopi Leyden and I like that as well however, I cannot get an answer if it will actually be able to be purchased and available for instal prior to the end of september.

    Facts to consider which may or may not be relevant:
    The stove will be our primary heat source
    Needs to be rear exit for flue
    We will be re-lining the chimney w/a stainless steel flue liner
    Fireplace is in living room w/10' ceiling that is open plan to a raised kitchen
    Chimney is on exterior wall
    we are often up an out the door by 6am and not home till 4pm
    We want something that is not hard to get started
    We live in the woods
    We have frequent power outages
    Our property lies in a snow belt of lake effect snow off of lake erie northwestern PA with frosts that can occur from September to May

    I hold the purse strings but he tends to get his way, we just want to get something that will work, look good, have as good of emissions as we can but we don't want catalytic.

    Any suggestions or musings would be helpful as we seem to be at a bit of an impasse. One word of mention, we were told by a dealerthat the Heritage in the Seafoam Majolica is of limited numbers and if we want it, it needs to be ordered on Tuesday.

    Thanks in advance for any help.
    Holly

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  2. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    Holly,
    Welcome to the forum. With your usage...out by 6 back by 4, you'd need a stove that can run for 10 hours on a load. Not many stoves that can acutally do that, but a Hearthstone Heritage would very likely be keeping the house warm when you got home. So in that respect that would be an ideal stove. The other school of thought is that the Vermont Castings will heat up faster. From My experience with a Jotul Castine I messed with once, it took a good hour to begin putting out useful heat, and a good 20 minutes before it even felt warm. So if you want quick heat when you get home, I don't think either of them is a good option, but the VC is better. If I were you, I'd look into a PE Summit, A Larger Lopi, or almost any of the larger steel (not cast) stoves/inserts. They heat up fast and produce useful heat in about 20 minutes. (Lopi, Osburn, VC, Avalon, Pacific Energy, and lots of others)... But you didn't mention inserts. Odd since your putting it into a fire place you said?

    Give us a little more and we'll all be glad to dig in a bit here.
  3. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yeah, I had the same question about an insert. I understand that power outages are a concern but if they are I am betting you already have a backup generator. The heat distribution from an insert has to be felt to be believed. In fact convection heating from my insert kept this place warm for five days during a deep snow induced power outage last year and it is a "dinosaur" insert. We never did use the backup batteries I have connected to the blower.

    And the house is 2,400 square feet total for two floors.

    I wouldn't put anything in our fireplace but another insert. They are made to be moving some hot air.
  4. ianandholly

    ianandholly New Member

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    Hubby likes the "look" of a freestanding stove better, plus the dealers we talked to said that we'd have to have a custom made faceplate to cover the larger opening of our fireplace thats one reason why we tended to get away from them.

    Part of the problem is he grew up w/old fashioned coal stoves in england and he likes a fancy look in the living room compared to what you seem to get from most large inserts here.

    Other issue is that the stove, if we move, can be taken out and replaced with a less nice model and we can take the stove with us and its guaranteed to be useable (for the most part) whereas you need a fireplace to install an insert into...

    Thats our thinking at least. We got away w/ a TINY no name woodstove that took less than a 16" log last season, but I was home during the day to keep it going. Not the case anymore as I cannot play homemaker any longer and I need to get back out into the real world :)

    Thanks for such amazingly quick replys.
    Holly
  5. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yeah I understand. I am looking to replace my insert and when talking to the the nice lady at a local stove store the other day she was pointing out all of the pretty enamel and soapstone stoves.

    I explained to her that I have a lot of nice looking furniture. I am looking for HEAT.

    Good fortune in your stove hunt. Either stove you are looking at will do a heck of a job but the Heritage will probably hold the heat ya need till ya get home at night. We did that drill for ten years. Load the stove in the morning and God help anybody that got in our way when it was time to leave the office at night in the winter. "Gotta get home. The stove will be getting cold!"
  6. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I agree with your hubby, I don't like the looks of inserts either. I think soapstone is your best bet. Like others have said it will hold the heat til you get home. The Heritage is a nice looking stove, but it would be nice to come home to a good bed of coals as well as the heat. Too bad you don't want a cat stove. I get true 10-12 hr burns in mine and has the same size firebox as the Heritage.

    Ok guys, don't start up the cat vs non cat debate again. I'm just giving my opinion.
  7. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Did I hear clean burning? Cleanest wood stove ever tested by the EPA is the VermontCasting Everburn non cat Encore.
    Amazing .7 grams per hour. If you are patriotic and support REAL North American maunfacturing. Vermont Castings In Bethel VT.
    The only Casting foundry for woods stoves, still producing North American made stoves. No others are cast here. Buying a VC stove saves and supports USA foundry jobs. Number one manufacturer's stove found in more USA homes than any other.
    Your choices are both winners. Neither will be a bad choice. Each has virtues. I might point out itok to place it in front of the fireplace opening but counter productive to place it in the opening ,, Especially in an exposed outside fire box. Too much heat will be lost and never make it into the living space. no matter what stove you purchase. Inserts can be swapped almost as eazy as free standing stoves. Moving a 400 lb insert of free standing stove witha 2 wheeler or on a paino dolly requires the same enengy to move.

    Editer to reflect location of America to either North America or USA
  8. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    AWeeeeeeee...........................Com mon' . Todd dont want to play any more . What is going to limit the wood stove choices i would think is the rear pipe outlet . I might have to go with the soapstone stove on this one . Secondary burn baffle of course ! HA ............... Can let the cake go and get eaten too .
  9. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    Is Hearthstone fake american manucfacturing? There praticly neighbors to VC in vermont. The hearthstone is 100% americal made right there in vermont, and they can do a one up on VC, there local owned too, not by a canadian teachers union ;)
  10. Marty

    Marty Feeling the Heat

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    Not quite, their soapstones were cast in Brazil... but to credit there was no USA then ;-)
  11. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    You mentioned you are in PA, why not look at coal, like a Harman DVC-500? It will run for days without tending, has an internal battery backup for power outages, and requires no chimney... plus your husband can get all nostalgic over his coal days from childhood.

    Other than that, any of the major manufacturers' largest stoves would be in order, Heritage, the Jotul Oslo, Lopi Leydon, Encore, Quadrafire 5700...

    -- Mike
  12. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    The soapstone is mined in brazil, but good point!
  13. lizzybobio

    lizzybobio New Member

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    Thanks for posting this, as I'm looking at the same for my fireplace (only the Hearthstone Tribute).

    Because you are getting the rear flue exit, are you able to still install the rear heatshield and fan to get convection?
  14. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    First of all are we talking the minning and processing soapstone? Or we also talking forging Cast iron as well? I will go back and change America to NorthAmerica or USA to be more percise
  15. ianandholly

    ianandholly New Member

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    Wouldn't mind the Hearthstone Mansfield for its size but, even w/our highish opening 36", since its top flue exit, we wont be able to vent it up through the chimney.Would love to see the specs for the Lopi leyden though, anyone seen them?

    Holly
  16. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    ok, my company mines soapstone in south america, your company is owned in canada. Touche. :)
  17. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    CFM has headquarters in Canada but owned by stock holders world wide. Traded on the Toronto exchange

    Cast iron forging is done in Bethel VT. That I believe, is still part of USA.

    Mentioned is the Encore but not mentioned and recently, also non cat version ever burn technology, is the larger Defiant model
  18. Mike Wilson

    Mike Wilson New Member

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    Guys... FOCUS.

    The woman wants stove suggestions, not an overanalyzed product soucing and manufacturing dissertation. ;-P
    Talk about a thread hijack!

    -- Mike
  19. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Back to the thread: Installing a free standing stove without a convection cover in an exposed outside fireplace opening Is not a formular for positive heat gain.. Those 3 exposed masonry walls will suck out heat on 3 sides leaving only the front exposure to radiate back into the room. The reason inserts work in these situations are, it has a convection outer jacket where heat is captured and flows out the front into the living space. Free standing woodstoves are designed to radiate heat all 6 sides and not just from the front. Now if you were to install a free standing stove in front of the opening and using a rear heat shield it would work as it should.
  20. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    Big time hijack, thats what happens when people try to talk them into there favriot stove by making you feel like dirt if you dont buy american! LMAO. Im just playing here, i figured this thread has run its course. I wish i had kept track how many times elk and i have had this conversation. Its all in fun.
    So lets see....
    Ummmm im in the Hearthstone camp. Buy a hearthstone! it will heat for extended amounts of time after the fire is out, and better yet it wont emit any grams per hour for 4 hours of its burn cycle! by far the cleanist stove on the market! its american made, except the stone is mined in brazil with slave labor, but its a fantastic product. I think there beautifull stoves, and can make a real center piece of a room. If you want heat that doesnt spike up and down, and is so nice and soft that you can site right next to it., then consider a hearthstone. But if both parties dont agree, its a moot point. Also, buy from a dealerthat you can trust. That might help in the decision.

    Elk :kiss:
  21. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    I have to agree on some of the inserts. Like a Lopi Answer or Napoleon (low end) just look like boxes sticking out. But the VC Winterwarm are really nice. There are a number of other inserts that look very nice also with cast iron fronts that are very attractive. I happen to also like my Osburn. At first I didn't think it would be all that great, but it turns out the bay window is really attractive. You get a great view of the fire from all angles.

    On the other hand the stoves your looking at really are hard to beat on looks. I particularly like the black enamel VC stoves, but they do have a reputation for the paint chipping especially near the door where it tends to get bumped. The enamel cleans easily.

    I do also like the look of hearthstones, and the Woodstocks also look nice with the soapstone.

    Well, I'm sorry I can't help prevent a divorce. The best advice I have for your husband....is pick what she likes!

    Any guy who hasn't figured that out yet needs counseling.
  22. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless things have changed, HearthStone is a spanish company. Assembly is done here, but casting and enameling is done in Spain.

    I won't tell Elk about certain parts that I once saw in the VC foundry.......suffice it to say they were not made by VC. EVERY company is now global....of course, VC is Canadian owned. And, since some people in Canada speak French, that makes them our sworn enemy, right?

    Just kidding, of course, but I actually know someone that won't shop at Target because it is French! Silly, silly people. The same folks have no problems with oil from Saudi Arabia or iPods from China or...for that matter, diamonds and other stuff from Africa (with wars and forced labor as part of the deal).

    If we are really going to be silly (in my opinion) and count....well, we'd simply buy the stoves that employ the most Americans.....my guess would be Lopi/Avalon unless anyone knows employment figures in the USA.

    VC/Majestic, BTW, not only has extensive China operations, but closed down a LOT of American manufacturing for overseas and Canadian sources.

    I would suggest that folks shop for stoves on the merits of the products.....until and unless someone does a factual study of everything from working conditions to salaries.

    Actually, I'm thinking hard...since American jobs are so important....if everyone sends me a lot of money, I promise to hire some additional AMERICANS to help me with Heath.com

    Forgive me....it's the weekend.

    PS. I'm so behind the times, I can't help with the product selection! Maybe it's time for Hearth.com to start a lab and start testing these babies.
  23. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Craig Mike was right I returned to the original situation, the placement. Every addition I build is with nails from China. Enough said moving on. What happened Craig you opened that one Sams addams sitting in the refrig tha past month .

    I really do not think any stove matters untill the placement issues are resolved
  24. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, this comes back to a point that has been made here before....mostly by me. Just about every stove made today is quite decent and I would say most of them will satisfy--- BUT the installation and chimney are much more important when it comes to user satisfaction.

    When it comes to placement, we can only guess. There is no accurate prediction of how air will move around a house - except experience, and luckily our friends in this situation have a small stove which already has answered that query.

    Then, even besides chimney and placement, you have the dealer. I am convinced that...for many people...this makes all the difference. A sour experience with a purchase and support can really affect satisfaction. So, although you didn't mention whether or not there are multiple dealers involved, if so I would suggest that is part of the decision process.

    Elk, as far as Sam Adams, I have to buy some more. I had to make due with a glass of Ca. (made in USA) wine last night, and my wife said I looked very sleepy afterwards.
  25. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    Isn't Harmon US? Last time I checked Pennsylvania was only an hour from here.
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