help prevent a divorce ;) and pick a stove

[elkimmeg]

Warren are you trying to bait me I said cast iron forged in USA An no their casting are not forged in USA

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I guess VC has to have SOMETHING going for them, Made in the USA is a good claim.....
Jotul gas stoves are cast and enameled in the USA. There wood castings get shipped over from norway though....
Like craig said. Its the weekend

 

[daninohio]

Back to the thread: Installing a free standing stove without a convection cover in an exposed outside fireplace opening Is not a formular for positive heat gain.. Those 3 exposed masonry walls will suck out heat on 3 sides leaving only the front exposure to radiate back into the room. The reason inserts work in these situations are, it has a convection outer jacket where heat is captured and flows out the front into the living space. Free standing woodstoves are designed to radiate heat all 6 sides and not just from the front. Now if you were to install a free standing stove in front of the opening and using a rear heat shield it would work as it should.

If she wants to do this the HearthStone Homestead is intended for this. It is a freestanding stove with a fireplace opening cover/shield made to go behind it and cover the opening. So long as there is enough depth to the hearth, you can have a freestanding stove with the efficiencies of an insert.

 

[begreen]

Both stoves will do the job and have satisfied users.. My wife prefers the Encore for aesthetic reasons, but in your case I wouild lean towards the soapstone stoves for longer heating. For other nice looking cast stoves look at the Harman Oakwood and Jotul Oslo. For long burn and quick heat, you might consider the Pacific Energy Spectrum or Summit Classic stove as well. Unless you are intending to move soon, I wouldn't worry about taking the stove with you. It's really hard to determine if it would even be appropriate in a different house.

A dedicated insert would be a good alternative. If you don't like the big picture window look, maybe consider the Jotul Tamarack. With the blower kit, you'll heat things up pretty quickly when you get home and it looks beautiful. There have been some not so good reports on the Winterwarm, so I can't recommend it.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/1397/

PS: Is there no backup heat for when you are away at work? That seems like a bit of risky business. I've been trapped in a snowstorm or two that delayed my return home by several hours. That alone might bias me towards soapstone.

PPS: We're going through the same dilemma, though our heating needs are less and the stove will be freestanding. As a compromise the Hearthstone Phoenix is edging up to neck and neck with the Oslo.

 

[webbie]

I guess VC has to have SOMETHING going for them, Made in the USA is a good claim.....
Jotul gas stoves are cast and enameled in the USA. There wood castings get shipped over from norway though....
Like craig said. Its the weekend

Yeah, it is the weekend.

Jotul is cast in Norway. Wood stoves arrive fully assembled. Gas stove castings arrive in piece, but enamel is already on...in other words assembly only is done here.

Harman (not Harmon), is one of the most American of companies...if we are counting. They used to have a partnership (maybe still do) with VC, where a lot of their castings were made in Vermont.

If my sources are correct, Harman is actually building a FOUNDRY (unheard of these days) in Pa as part of their 250,00 Sq. Ft expansion.

The Harman name, of course, is simply the last name of the founder and owner - Dane Harman. Definitely one of the best success stories in the industry.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Craig, when i was there they were casting the nordic, castine and alagash there in main, and enameling them. Now that was 4 years ago...Maybe i had to much lobster and some local white beer, and my memory is fogged, or possibly im just reaching for straws here......

 

[Shane]

I thought Hearthstone was owned by a Spanish company?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

A HearthStone stove is more than just a practical way to warm your home. It’s often the centerpiece of a room as well - something that family and friends will gather around. So, we make sure that every HearthStone stove has the hand-crafted beauty of a piece of fine furniture.

HearthStone stoves are made in Vermont with Yankee ingenuity and practicality. They’re made one at a time by individual craftsmen. There’s no assembly line. They’re built by people who take great pride in their work, and understand the need for both reliability and functionality - and the desire for a special presentation within your home. Each soapstone woodstove is hand-signed by the person who made it. So, whatever your sense of style - rustic, elegant, casual or formal - or your lifestyle - outdoor, active, indoor and relaxed at home, a HearthStone can fit beautifully into your decor.

Each and every HearthStone stove is crafted to the highest standards. Materials are the finest, strongest and most durable available. Manufacturing practices are unparalleled in the industry. For example, our baked enamel finishes are fired to 1,500 degrees to provide HearthStone’s signature luster and shine, and for the greatest chip and tarnish resistance. All secondary air tubes are constructed of durable stainless steel, to resist corrosion and provide a lifetime of service.

All HearthStone woodstoves are non-catalytic, making them easier to operate and maintain. Additionally, various exclusive design features make them easy to load and clean... all of which makes HearthStone woodstoves extremely reliable and maintenance free. The air wash system built into every stove prevents the window glass from fogging or discoloring - making the large windows "self-cleaning" to maximize your view of the gently flickering flames.

We combine time-tested craftsmanship and materials with the latest heating technology to ensure our stoves are clean-burning and efficient. We take great pride in the fact that our own environmental standards exceed even the strictest EPA guidelines.

All HearthStone gas stoves are both powerful sources of heat, as well as remarkable models of efficiency... while providing the ease and convenience of gas. A cast iron double heat exchanger, standard in all our gas models, ensures maximum transfer of heat from the stove or insert into the room.

Also standard are features such as variable flame height control, allowing you to control the rate of heat output, a wall-mounted thermostat and a built-in 3-way On/Off/T-stat switch. And, of course, all HearthStone gas stoves offer the beauty of a realistic flame display, allowing you to create a special ambiance in your home.


Thtats my story and im stickin to it.

 

[ianandholly]

To start, don't worry about the hijacks, they can still be interesting and useful in terms of info...
Now back to the issues at hand...
I find it interesting that you folks brought up the issues regarding the outside wall. I was saying today that might suck away heat and that we should get someone to cut some sort of steel blocker and then put that inside the fire to stop the heat from going all the way back into there.

Hubby pointed out that hearthstone sells optional rear heat shields and fan w/built in thermostat and rheostat. Would that help w/placement issues and be better for placement in front of a fireplace.

The reason we were tending away from the homestead is that he likes the larger firebox than what is available in it.

We are looking specifically at wood as we have our own free supply of hardwood on our property. Why pay for some other fuel when you can get oak with little more than sweat equity.

Like I mentioned before I am still interested in that darned lopi leyden, I wish someone had some info we could see. The closest dealer which is about an hour away said they still don't have any yet.

One issue that hasn't been discussed is warranty. The Hearthstone seems as though their warranty is MUCH better than Vermont Castings, anyone deal with either in terms of warranty...?

Holly

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

You know, to tell you the truth, i dont think i have made a warrenty claim in any woodstove that i have sold, with any brand. Not saying that there hasnt been some tweaking, but nothing that i had to get a manufacture involved. The Homestead and Heratige are real close in firebox size and footprint. I would just pull the heratige out of the firebox as far as possible, stick a heatshied on it and call it good. In fun, there are lots debate on which stove is best. I can tell you most my comments today have been in jest. VC, Lopi, Quad, Hearthstone, Woodstock, regency, etc all make high quality stoves, with relative close specs, emmisions, and efficiency ratings, You cant realy go wrong any way you look at it. If i were in the market for a stove, i would consider materials, not brand names. Find out if you want steel, cast, or soapstone, and then narrow down from there. If you decide cast, go look at all the good cast manufactures, and pick the dealer, not the stove.

 

[BrotherBart]

As many forum members have found out, warranty on the major brand stoves is only as good as the dealer you have. That is because all contact with the manufacturer is through the dealer so it depends on the dealer's dedication to solving the problem.

Personally, when I read the different stove warranties it looks like they have included sufficient wording to blame pretty much any problem on the stove owner/operator.

<ducking before the dealer members weigh in>

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

As many forum members have found out, warranty on the major brand stoves is only as good as the dealer you have. That is because all contact with the manufacturer is through the dealer so it depends on the dealers dedication to solving the problem.

Personally, when I read the different stove warranties it looks like they have included sufficient wording to blame pretty much any problem on the stove owner/operator.

<ducking before the dealer members weigh in>

or the chimney.....

 

[begreen]

From the little I've been able to glean, the Leyden is a big beast holding about 55lbs. of wood. It might be overkill for your house depending on insulation and tightness. MSG has the correct approach. I'm glad he mentioned Quadrafire. I forgot about the Cumberland Gap and Isle Royale stoves.

 

[Shane]

I have a Leyden that will arrive at my shop on mon or tues. It's initially being released in the New Iron finish with enamels to follow.
Here's a link to the owners manual http://w3.tribcsp.com/~aahcinc/Leyden.pdf
73000 Btu
2.3 cu ft firebox
70% overall efficiency (Oregon method)
2.4 grams per hour EPA PhaseII approved (tested by Omni test laboratories)

Some pictures http://w3.tribcsp.com/~aahcinc/leyden.pdf

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the post Shane. It looks like they've sized it a bit smaller than the Liberty that I was comparing it to . That's good news, it might work for us. Do you know if they are made in Mukilteo, WA or is this just the corp. hq.?

 

[BrotherBart]

I think the only people that need to be concerned with where a stove is made are the residents of Wrentham, Massachusetts. I hear that the only stoves that are allowed to pass inspection there have to come from Bethel, Vermont.

 

[Shane]

The actual castings are foreign. There is a 500,000 sq. ft. manufacturing facility in Mukilteo. It's an old Boeing assembly building. I'm wondering if the firebox size in the manual is a misprint because I saw this stove in Salt Lake and the firebox looked just as big or bigger than the Liberty. When it gets here on Monday I'll measure it. Travis and many other US stove companies may have their castings made in foreign foundries, but they supply thousands of manufacturing jobs here in the US. They don't use that 1/2 million square ft for nothing! Craig has some great pics of the facility posted in his factory tours section.

 

[begreen]

Cool. That's a huge facility. Must be near Payne Field. That's only about 40 miles north of me. I'll see if they have factory tours. Sounds like a field trip may be in order.

Yes, I remember the box being mentioned as big as the Liberty, so I expected it to be about 3+ cu ft. The manual shows a lot of firebrick in the Leyden, so perhaps that is what's eating up the interior space??

 

[Todd]

I have a Leyden that will arrive at my shop on mon or tues. It's initially being released in the New Iron finish with enamels to follow.
Here's a link to the owners manual http://w3.tribcsp.com/~aahcinc/Leyden.pdf
73000 Btu
2.3 cu ft firebox
70% overall efficiency (Oregon method)
2.4 grams per hour EPA PhaseII approved (tested by Omni test laboratories)

Some pictures http://w3.tribcsp.com/~aahcinc/leyden.pdf

I was thinking those numbers would be close to the VC non cat Encore? Isn't it the same type of everburn technology? Doesn't seem any better than the old non cats. Still a nice looking stove tho.

 

[webbie]

Craig, when i was there they were casting the nordic, castine and alagash there in main, and enameling them. Now that was 4 years ago...Maybe i had to much lobster and some local white beer, and my memory is fogged, or possibly im just reaching for straws here......

No way! You had too much beer!

No foundry in Maine Jotul....no enameling either.

And that HearthStone drivel is from their brochure. Call them and ask them where the parts are cast and enameled - and who owns the company. That "Vermont" talk is proven to gather more sales.

Check out the company that owns HearthStone.

 

[Shane]

They're neck & neck in efficiency 70%. The GPH are better with the VC's but 2.4 is still quite a respectable number. I sell Hearthstone, VC & Lopi all are great stoves and all have features & benefits that will suit different people's needs. My thought is that the main advantage of the downdraft non-cat technology is that it enables top loading. Though I must admit I too thought with such simialr technology we would have seen lower EPA #'s out of this stove.

 

[webbie]

The actual castings are foreign.

As an example of Global trade, consider that Travis Industries DOES own both iron and aluminum foundries - and, of course, brass foundries. In fact, the reason that Travis owns all these stove companies is that they owed him money from the brass doors and he got first shot at buying them out (long ago). Before stove, I think irrigation equipment was the big customer of these castings.

While they do import castings and even some artisan steel (see tour for an example), they also supply castings of many types to industry both in the USA and (I think) elsewhere. They also supply fabricated steel to others.

When you have all these machines and facilities, you have to keep them all pumping....buying and selling certain parts helps a company like Travis prosper.

 

[Shane]

Also I wonder if the VC numbers represent a best case scenario and the Lopi numbers an average. The reason I question this is because the Harman Oakwood manual. (I understand this stove utilizes similar technology) states that on low it is .8gph and that average is 2.43gph. Also the VC manual(s) for the Encore & Defiant have an * by the epa numbers stating that the numbers were achieved under specific conditions during EPA testing. Maybe a call to VC technical will answer these questions.

 

[Shane]

YEah the Artisan steel is hand hammered & talk about thick quality faces. You pay for it though that copper artisan face can cost up to 1200 bucks. But there isn't another that, in my opinion, quite matches the look and feel the obvious quality.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Man, craig takes all the fun out of it. So whats the deal, does heathstone only assemble in vermont too?