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Help removing old fireplace and connecting wood stove to 8" triple-wall chimney

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by jonphilip, Nov 27, 2010.

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  1. jonphilip

    jonphilip New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
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    Loc:
    Mid Ohio
    hello, I just joined this forum because there is a ton of useful information on here! I'm hoping to get some suggestions on a project I am just starting. I have a ranch style home built in 1978. It has a fireplace unit in the basement, that I am going to remove and replace with a new wood stove. The fireplace has 8" triple walled chimney pipe made by "SelKirk MetalBestos" that runs through the 1st floor, attic, and out the roof. The chimney pipe does not appear to be fastened to anything and is resting on the fireplace unit (see pics). So here are my questions:

    1. How do I remove the old fireplace??? Do I need to remove the existing chimney starting at the roof and then remove the fireplace, or can I secure the chimney to the floor joist and then drop the fireplace down? It seems like pretty heavy pipe and I'm not sure if a bracket will be enough to hold the weight of all of it. I don't want it all to come crashing down when I drop the fireplace!

    2. Is there an adapter I can buy that will connect to triple-wall pipe to convert it to a 6" double-wall to connect to my stove?

    3. Should the chimney be secured or can it just rest on the wood stove much like it currently is once I have the stove in place?

    4. Should I use a support box to hold it up? Do they make one to fit triple wall pipe? The circumference of the pipe is is 32", which is pretty large!

    5. If you look at pic 4, the chimney pipe is rated for 2" clearance from combustables, but it looks to be about 1/2" from the floor joist. Would it be safe to make a connection using an adapter this close to the wood joist?

    I apprecate anyone that has good suggestions for the best way to proceed on this and/or links to products that I will need to purchase. I want to take my time and do it right. I plan to build a hearth to set the stove on and I will upload my progress on that to contribute back to the forum.

    Thanks!

    Jon

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  2. cmonSTART

    cmonSTART Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Antrim, NH
    Oh wow. You have a manufactured fireplace vented into a selkirk chimney. There are a few things to consider here:

    1. The chimney is supported by the fireplace and therefore needs to be removed in order to then remove the fireplace.

    2. First and foremost, while the chimney for this fireplace does look like good Class A chimney, many manufactured fireplaces do not use true Class A for their chimneys and are listed and tested differently. You need to positively verify this chimney can legally and safely vent your stove. There can be a very big difference between the two types of chimney.

    3. To reinstall the chimney, you will have to obtain the proper Selkirk parts, such as ceiling support box and such to complete the reinstallation as required for a wood stove.

    Once the 8 inch chimney is installed properly, its just a matter of increasing the connector pipe to 8 inches and properly attaching it to the chimney with the proper selkirk connector.

    Again, I stress that you need to positively identify that chimney pipe and make sure it can be used to vent a wood stove instead of a fireplace. I can't read that sticker too well. I'll see if I can pull it up on a different monitor and get a good look at it.
  3. jonphilip

    jonphilip New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    Loc:
    Mid Ohio
    thanks for the reply cmonSTART!
    That is very helpful information. I was afraid I may have to remove the whole chimney. I will verify it can safely be used with my stove. I'm curious as to your initial "oh wow" comment. What about the current setup surprised you? Is it the manufactured fireplace or the brand of chimney, or the combination of the 2? Just curious.. thanks again for your suggestions. I will post updates as I get this out and the new stove in!

    Jon
  4. Dakotas Dad

    Dakotas Dad Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Central Kentucky
    Says on the picture of the label from the chimney that it can be used with equipment normally producing flue gasses below 1000 °F. Class A chimney is rated way above that, and required by your stove manufacturer 2100°F is the requirement for my stove and I am sure, all wood stoves.. So my take is that you will need to replace the fireplace chimney with proper class A chimney. That's what I had to do also.
  5. jonphilip

    jonphilip New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
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    Loc:
    Mid Ohio
    thanks Dakotas Dad.
    I read through the user manual again on my new stove (Englander 30-NCH) and the manual states the pre-fabricated chimney must be listed to UL103HT (Class A).

    I REALLY appreciate all the replies I've received on this forum. I thought this should be an easy drop the stove in and hook it up, but I guess not. Sucks I have scrap the existing chimney, but I'd rather be safe and not burn my house down!

    Jon
  6. kgrant

    kgrant Member

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    Loc:
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    What if you ran 6" single wall pipe inside of the existing 8" pipe? I bet it would work, not sure if it would meet "code" though.

    My dad has 8" metalbestos (not sure what class) and he runs 7" single wall pipe inside of it. It has been that way for 35 years. We have replaced the single wall pipe several times.
  7. cmonSTART

    cmonSTART Minister of Fire

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    Single wall pipe cannot be installed in a concealed location per code (where code matters.)

    The "oh wow" comment was more a reflection on the fact that you were going to have to uninstall the entire system to get a stove in there.
  8. cmonSTART

    cmonSTART Minister of Fire

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    And congrats on the stove BTW. The 30NC is a GREAT stove!
  9. jonphilip

    jonphilip New Member

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    thanks! hopefully I'll get to light it 1 of these days!!!
  10. kgrant

    kgrant Member

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    Loc:
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    What about lining the 8" triple wall with 6" double wall, is that legal? The double wall is 6 1/2" OD. Or using a 6" liner with 1/2" insulation, that would be 7" OD. Seems like there should be someway to make use of the 8" triple wall that is already in place? (that would meet code?)
  11. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Loc:
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    NO. You can't run ANYTHING but a continuous (one-piece) liner thru an existing chimney.
    The ONLY way this chimney can be safely use is by leaving the fireplace in position &
    running an insulated liner all the way down to either a tee attached to a stove or into an insert.
    Remove the existing chimney & see if it has any scrap value.
  12. kgrant

    kgrant Member

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    Why is it okay to run a liner through the chimney if it's connected to a fireplace, but it's not ok if it is not connected?

    I'm not trying to argue, just trying to learn.
  13. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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  14. kgrant

    kgrant Member

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    Loc:
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    I'm not sure what Jon's plans are here. But what if he was going to use the new stove as a free standing unit. Could he support the existing chimney with a ceiling support, then run an insulated 6" liner and connect the liner to the stove? Thanks for putting up with my questions
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