Help! Should I buy a woodstove?

[chocsoymilk]

I am torn. I am a pyromaniac at heart and have always loved fireplaces and fire. Currently I have a wood burning fireplace w/ a gas insert. I never use this as you all know it's about as cozy as watching the kitchen stove heat the tea kettle.

I have my heart set on a wood stove and have researched it for years. I've just gotten a home equity loan for home improvements and a sizable chunk of the budget has been allocated for the wood stove. I also need new windows but if I spend $5000. on the wood stove (new, environmentally responsible and professionally installed as I don't know what I'm doing) the idea of windows will literally go out the window.

Here's where I'm torn. I live in Richmond, VA. For those of you not familiar with the area, the climate is humid subtropical. I couldn't get new windows and a wood stove anyway bc it would be like spending my winters in the fires of hell if I did. I am a woman and I live alone so I would be responsible for all the work associated w/ wood stove.

All of my family and friends have said "don't do it!" BTW, they also said I couldn't lay a 350 sq foot ceramic tile kitchen floor on the diagonal having never laid a tile in my life. Well, I proved them wrong, and beautifully I might add!

Aesthetics are important to me. I was so disappointed to find I'd need one of those unsightly hearth extenders. The Vermont Castings stoves are so cute! I don't want an insert bc they are just as expensive and I'd still need an extension. Also, the stoves are so much cuter!

To make it worth the investment to purchase this stove, I'd have to commit to burning for at least 2 years (for the savings off my gas bill to make up the cost of installing what amounts to another furnace for my home.)

I talked to one friend and she said she knew people who had had a stove and they were CONSTANTLY chopping wood. That this was an investment of time and effort that just didn't end and continued the entire burning season, not to mention the preparation season of the summer.

On the other hand, I LOVE stoking a fire and hurling on the logs! Remember: self-professed pyro, here.

I'm considering just changing the gas burning back to wood burning but also have concerns regarding my 40+ year old masonry chimney. (I don't know there is anything wrong with it, per se, but it is 40+ years old.)

Most of my concerns regarding burning wood in fireplace lie in the fact that efficiency can be as little as -10% with a fireplace. I had also considered one of the glass screens, btw and would appreciate guidance regarding this, too. If I'm burning wood, I want to be confident that it's doing something to actually heat the home.

I have been doing a little reading re: fireplace woodburning. I remember my grandmother had a blower in her fireplace. I remember it was loud. I don't remember how effective it was. But in my existing fireplace, I'm understanding the literature that it would be difficult for me to insert one of these? Correct? What about one of the glass screens? Are they helpful? What about the vents that draw air for the fire into the fireplace from outside the room/house? Is this possible in an already built chimney?

Finally another (unreliable) person in my life has said that I can burn wood in a gas fireplace grate and I can use the gas to start the fire! Once the fire has started, he said I can just turn the gas off! Is this true? Is this dangerous? Is it simply crazy?

Any and all comments and suggestions regarding the above will be gratefully received! I am so looking forward to hearing from people who don't have an agenda!

I know the above was long. Thanks for sticking with me!

Thanks in advance.

 

[builderbob]

I have my heart set on a wood stove and have researched it for years. I've just gotten a home equity loan for home improvements and a sizable chunk of the budget has been allocated for the wood stove.

Finally another (unreliable) person in my life has said that I can burn wood in a gas fireplace grate and I can use the gas to start the fire! Once the fire has started, he said I can just turn the gas off! Is this true? Is this dangerous? Is it simply crazy?

2nd part first----yes, I am just a newbie, but the thing about using the gas to light the wood fire sounds crazy to me!!

First part---your heart is set on a woodstove. Go for it!!

The open masonry fireplace even with glass doors, is a heat waster all the time. And draws out house heat when burning. Go for a high efficiency woodstove.

BTB

 

[begreen]

Last is easiest to answer, don't do it. You can't safely burn wood on the gas grates.

Personally, if your gas prices are reasonable, I would stick with gas. You might want a more attractive or efficient stove, but in a city this is going to be a cleaner more affordable alternative for the time being. Unless of course you have a great source for free firewood.

 

[elkimmeg]

Step one you never mentioned your existing heating system It is probably possible to spend some money there to make improvements like pipe of duct sealing and insulation
Step two instead of anderson or Pella replacement windows a middle grade brand will work in your climate and lleave enough money for a stove
Step 3 what will your wood supply consist of?
the next is there used to be gas igniters for wood burning but not from gas log sets You are right about the reality of the flame and heat going up the chimney
Step 4 you have to get a mason or v chimney sweep in to determine your current chimney condition before you consider any other options

Glass doors will not aide in transfering heat to the living space As for cute Vc stoves lets see if the first 4 steps make more sense first I have two Vc stoves here to help advise on but only after realistic planning

Welcome to the Hearth

 

[jtp10181]

If you burn wood in the existing masonry open fireplace there is not much of a way to make the heat output useful to heating the house. You could get a "grate heater" but its nothing too amazing.

Lighting a wood fire with gas.... probably talking about a log lighter. They work, but they are not very safe. Newspaper works good enough for most people.

You might be best off getting new windows and converting your gas insert back to wood. You could use the old masonry just for fun and not for heat. Although being 40+ years old the chimney might not be in very good shape so that could be a risk also.

We have a few Fireside stores in your area but unfortunately they do not do "retail" jobs, only new houses with builders. That's a shame.

 

[Gooserider]

I am torn. I am a pyromaniac at heart and have always loved fireplaces and fire. Currently I have a wood burning fireplace w/ a gas insert. I never use this as you all know it's about as cozy as watching the kitchen stove heat the tea kettle.

Well that depends on what kind of "tea" you are making, but... I tend to agree, this is one of the reasons I don't care for gas or pellet stoves, the flame is just to regular to be interesting.

I have my heart set on a wood stove and have researched it for years. I've just gotten a home equity loan for home improvements and a sizable chunk of the budget has been allocated for the wood stove. I also need new windows but if I spend $5000. on the wood stove (new, environmentally responsible and professionally installed as I don't know what I'm doing) the idea of windows will literally go out the window.

Here's where I'm torn. I live in Richmond, VA. For those of you not familiar with the area, the climate is humid subtropical. I couldn't get new windows and a wood stove anyway bc it would be like spending my winters in the fires of hell if I did. I am a woman and I live alone so I would be responsible for all the work associated w/ wood stove.

A wood stove is a lot of work - how much depends on what level of effort you put into processing the wood, but even if you get "Cut & Split" you will still be doing a lot of lifting and lugging.

All of my family and friends have said "don't do it!" BTW, they also said I couldn't lay a 350 sq foot ceramic tile kitchen floor on the diagonal having never laid a tile in my life. Well, I proved them wrong, and beautifully I might add!

I sometimes wonder about family and friends, and their "helpful advice" - is it really given in your best interest, or does it merely reflect their own lack of confidence in their abilities? (One of those nice philosophical type questions...)

Aesthetics are important to me. I was so disappointed to find I'd need one of those unsightly hearth extenders. The Vermont Castings stoves are so cute! I don't want an insert bc they are just as expensive and I'd still need an extension. Also, the stoves are so much cuter!

Depending on the actual measurements you will probably need to extend your hearth, but that can be done in relatively subtle and aestheticly pleasing ways - check out the Wiki article I've been working on HERE! Look at the section on doing a "flush" pad, which basically consists of cutting out the existing floor and building it back up with the appropriate insulating materials, then covering it with tile or other non-combustible. If you were able to lay a kitchen tile floor, you could probably do a hearth pad, the biggest challenge would be finding a floor treatment that would look good with your existing hearth - Perhaps if you posted some pictures we could offer some suggestions. (Please post pictures in any case, it can help us spot potential issues)

To make it worth the investment to purchase this stove, I'd have to commit to burning for at least 2 years (for the savings off my gas bill to make up the cost of installing what amounts to another furnace for my home.)

True, do you feel up to the commitment? Note also that if you burned less than 24/7 you'd still have a payback, it would just take you longer.

I talked to one friend and she said she knew people who had had a stove and they were CONSTANTLY chopping wood. That this was an investment of time and effort that just didn't end and continued the entire burning season, not to mention the preparation season of the summer.

On the other hand, I LOVE stoking a fire and hurling on the logs! Remember: self-professed pyro, here.

This is something you need to think about - what are you going to do for wood supply? Options range from purchasing "Cut & Split" wood, which is expensive, but involves relatively little work, to all out "scrounging" which requires a substantial vehicle and / or trailer, more equipment, and can get both time consuming and strenuous, (even for guys with more muscles than brains :lol: ) I don't want to sound sexist, but what kind of shape are you in, and how strong are you? Splitting by hand takes considerable upper body strength, not to mention the effort of hauling the wood once it's split. I take a middle course, and get "log-length" wood delivered, which is less expensive than a scrounging truck, but I still have to cut and split it myself. I split by hand, you could by a splitter, but that would be more expensive. Another consideration is what kind of space do you have? If you by log length you'll need a space for a stack of 20-25' logs, and even doing cut and split, you will still need to have a place big enough to store your winter supply - probably about 3-4 cords at 4x4x8' each... My main wood shed stores about 6 cords and is 8' x 16' - do you have that kind of space?

As to the "always chopping" - sort of true, if you process your own wood, but I look at it as the alternative to the health club - Spend an hour or two a day processing wood instead of doing other exercise...

(Will continue in next message)

 

[Gooserider]

Continued....

I'm considering just changing the gas burning back to wood burning but also have concerns regarding my 40+ year old masonry chimney. (I don't know there is anything wrong with it, per se, but it is 40+ years old.)

First step will certainly need to be a good professional cleaning and inspection, however you probably will need to think about having a liner installed - most fireplaces have a flue that is to big (per current codes) to use with a wood stove. Also there may have been modifications made to the fireplace to install the gas insert, again you'll need an inspection to know for sure. The good news is that a properly installed (and insulated) liner can compensate for many defects.

Most of my concerns regarding burning wood in fireplace lie in the fact that efficiency can be as little as -10% with a fireplace. I had also considered one of the glass screens, btw and would appreciate guidance regarding this, too. If I'm burning wood, I want to be confident that it's doing something to actually heat the home.

Very true, and there really isn't much you can do to get useable heat out of an existing fireplace.

I have been doing a little reading re: fireplace woodburning. I remember my grandmother had a blower in her fireplace. I remember it was loud. I don't remember how effective it was. But in my existing fireplace, I'm understanding the literature that it would be difficult for me to insert one of these? Correct? What about one of the glass screens? Are they helpful? What about the vents that draw air for the fire into the fireplace from outside the room/house? Is this possible in an already built chimney?

There are aftermarket grates (one I've seen made out of "C" shaped steel tubes) and other accessories that claim to get more heat out of a fireplace, but you are not going to really improve it that much.

Finally another (unreliable) person in my life has said that I can burn wood in a gas fireplace grate and I can use the gas to start the fire! Once the fire has started, he said I can just turn the gas off! Is this true? Is this dangerous? Is it simply crazy?

Is this someone that claims to LIKE you? If so, you don't need enemies! I would agree with you assesement of the person as "unreliable" in any case... This is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME! (unless you want "home" to be in orbit...) Your gas equipment is NOT designed to deal with the random heat put out by a wood fire, and you risk failure. Even if the hardware doesn't fail, the notion of introducing gas into a possibly still hot wood fire is scary to say the least. Lastly, the venting on your insert is almost certainly not capable of dealing with the amount of smoke put out by a wood fire, or the creosote and other combustion byproducts of wood burning (there is a reason woodstove chimney liners are made from high grade stainless steel...) If you don't blow yourself up, you are very likely to do yourself in with CO poisoning from improperly vented smoke.

Any and all comments and suggestions regarding the above will be gratefully received! I am so looking forward to hearing from people who don't have an agenda!

I know the above was long. Thanks for sticking with me!

Thanks in advance.

No problem, glad to help out. We want you to be safe, and make a decision you are happy with.

Gooserider

 

[webbie]

Just a quickie answer, but how about doing the windows AND purchasing something like the Fireplace Radiator to get some heat from your wood? In general, most folks here council conservation (windows) as the best possible savings of energy - especially in a Richmond Climate. The Fireplace Radiator can be found either by Google or at our Direct Page - https://www.hearth.com/direct.html

As far as the fireplace, 40 years is pretty young and a unit like the Radiator does not put the stress (in terms of creosote and such) on the chimney. The chances are good that the chimney is fine for occasional wood burning as an open fireplace....but you might be able to get your local building or fire official out there to confirm....sometimes free, or get a local chimney sweep. The problem with the 2nd option is that it is sometimes tough to get a honest opinion since sweeps make most of their money fixing chimneys. If you use a sweep, ask around and try to find a "down-home honest" one.....they do exist. Not that the others are dishonest, but safety is ALWAYS a matter of degree, and one always has to take commercial interests in mind. Given a unit like the heat grates or fireplace radiator, you have (in my opinion) a couple extra margins of safety because the fire is lifted off the hearth and also not built against the back wall of the F/P. For those who use a fireplace regularly, heat soaking through these areas is one of the biggest dangers (if the fireplace was built incorrectly in the first place, which MANY are).

Fires higher in the chimney or smoke chamber are less likely because a lot of air is going up the chimney along with that flame and smoke. In fact, the Pilgrims built chimneys out of wood and mud, because the amount of air dilution was so great that this did the job (and they didn't have anything else to build with, at least not as quick as they needed them)

 

[myzamboni]

Address the windows first. The difference between good double-pane and old single pane is amazing. House stays warmer AND the noise reduction is impressive.

With utility savings you may then consider a woodstove a couple years down the road.

 

[chocsoymilk]

Thanks for all the great ideas!

I knew he was nuts with that "turn the gas on to start the fire" line!

As I haven't actually had a fireplace to burn in for 20+ years (I've only burned in friend's fireplaces) I'm thinking I should convert the gas back to woodburning, get the glass screen and burn fires for the first year to see if I'd be really committed.

While I am strong and in pretty good shape, I am a woman and don't really have the upper body strength for chopping wood that a man would have.

BTW for the poster who wanted to know about my furnace fuel, it is natural gas. When I converted to gas, it was supposed to be cheaper than oil, but then the prices of natural gas went through the roof and now I don't think there's any really significant difference in the price.

I would post pictures of the fireplace, but I am a technophobe and don't even have a digital camera. I'd have to borrow one to do so. If I have access anytime in the near future, I'll try to do so.

I am reconsidering the new windows. My current windows are aluminum framed which is simply a portal to conduct the heat out in the winter and in in the summer. This would probably be the best use of the money.

Thanks again for all your input!

 

[Sandor]

Soymilk,

Everybody is right on. If your old windows are that bad, then I would certainly go for new ones first. You will get the benefit in both Summer and Winter.

I live about 60 miles SE of you on the Middle Peninsula and go to Richmond about once a month if you need someone to stop by and offer an objective (and safe) opinion concerning your fireplace.

I heat exclusively with wood and am well versed in the building trade.

Enjoy!

 

[wvgal]

I lived in Richmond for 10 years, had an oil boiler and an inefficient wood stove. I replaced the windows before I did anything else (house built in 1965) and it made a huge difference. I rarely used the wood stove (it came with the house). Winters in Richmond are pretty mild and with the new windows you might not need a wood stove.

My solution to being a fire-lover was to build a fire pit in my back yard and have outdoor fires. The weather in Richmond is often mild enough to do that even in the winter.

If you ever do get a wood stove, I'm sure you can build up the strength to split wood. I am a 66 year old woman and I can split wood pretty easily using a star-shaped wedge and an 8-pound sledge hammer. The key to easy splitting is the star-shaped wedge and having the right wood (no gnarly stuff that won't split)

 

[karl]

My father-in-law has the gas burner in the fireplace thing and it works well. He uses it to light the wood and then shuts it off. The fireplace is lousy but it is a easy way to start a fire. His on off valve is like 4 feet away from the fireplace, so I don't think there is a safety issue with it.

 

[builderbob]

My father-in-law has the gas burner in the fireplace thing and it works well. He uses it to light the wood and then shuts it off. The fireplace is lousy but it is a easy way to start a fire. His on off valve is like 4 feet away from the fireplace, so I don't think there is a safety issue with it.

I have read manuals of some zc woodburner fireplaces that say gas igniters not an approved use in such fireplaces. Seems like something to be very careful of and to follow firepalce unit manufacturers manual instructions exactly.

Speaking of gas, just watched on TV news about some kind of gas cannister explosion in Texas in an industrial area.

BTB

 

[Gooserider]

My father-in-law has the gas burner in the fireplace thing and it works well. He uses it to light the wood and then shuts it off. The fireplace is lousy but it is a easy way to start a fire. His on off valve is like 4 feet away from the fireplace, so I don't think there is a safety issue with it.

They used to be popular in some areas, but my understanding is that these days they are prohibited by code for new installations (I could be wrong - Elk?) There are several grounds for concern with them, starting with the risk of the unit itself failing, or being misused, but probably the biggest issue is the fact that it puts out a pretty sizeable amount of gas, but has no safety mechanism to shut the gas off if it isn't lit... Thus there is a significant explosion hazard if the gas valve fails or is accidentally turned on.

Gooserider

 

[jpl1nh]

I lived in Richmond for 10 years, had an oil boiler and an inefficient wood stove. I replaced the windows before I did anything else (house built in 1965) and it made a huge difference. I rarely used the wood stove (it came with the house). Winters in Richmond are pretty mild and with the new windows you might not need a wood stove.

My solution to being a fire-lover was to build a fire pit in my back yard and have outdoor fires. The weather in Richmond is often mild enough to do that even in the winter.

If you ever do get a wood stove, I'm sure you can build up the strength to split wood. I am a 66 year old woman and I can split wood pretty easily using a star-shaped wedge and an 8-pound sledge hammer. The key to easy splitting is the star-shaped wedge and having the right wood (no gnarly stuff that won't split)

I agree, while strength is nice, technique is paramount. Learn to "read" the wood, gain the skill to hit it where you intend, and you'll do fine!