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Help with current set up

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by chewy, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. chewy

    chewy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    117
    Loc:
    Indiana
    Hello all,

    I'm wondering if someone will help me figure out if my current setup has some problems? I have 2 1" pex lines feeding a heat exchanger 150' one way. I'm running a taco 0011 at my (pos) "free heat machine" owb. Also a run of 2 1" pex lines 25' away to an exchanger in my shop of 1800 sq ft. My house is 1200 sq ft main floor with a basement of 1200 unused. House is recently well insulated with 2" closed cell foam. Shop is decently insulated and only heated when I'm in it.

    I'm wondering if my pump is over sized to my house. I think my stove is not able to keep up with the the amount of water that I'm pumping. I'm currently thinking about getting an empyre pro 200 and want to use as much of my current setup. I just don't want to make a mistake and be in the same situation I'm in now which is loading every 5 to 6 hrs.

    Ty in advance
    Chewy

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  2. goosegunner

    goosegunner Minister of Fire

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    Oct 15, 2009
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    1,278
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    WI
    Way too many unknowns;

    Heat loss of house?

    Under ground pex insulation?

    Loading 5-6 hours, how much? Full? Firebox size?

    Any OWB I have seen should hold way more wood than needed for a 1200 square ft house in Indiana for 6 hours.

    Could you have water infiltration around your underground lines? That would be my first guess.

    gg
  3. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Loc:
    Indiana
    Hey gg,

    Heat loss in house I don't know. Lines are buried 3' deep and close cell foamed around. I will check the water temp at my exchanger. I remember last winter checking at the stove when the fan kicked off at 180* the water temp leaving at the pump was 150*. The water is pulled from the bottom left of the water jacket. It is a round firebox 42" deep and I think 36" round. I load it pretty full.
    Chewy
  4. goosegunner

    goosegunner Minister of Fire

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    Supply to house should be pulled from the top and returned to the bottom.

    gg
  5. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Loc:
    Indiana
    That's what I thought but it is labeled the way I have it hooked up. Do you think I should drop down to one line and try that? The taco 11 seems way to big for 2 lines.

    Do other brands of owb pull from the top? My return is at the top. Central boiler, heat mor, empyre, ect? Anyone know?
  6. ABM2958

    ABM2958 Member

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    Aug 16, 2010
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    Loc:
    NW Lower MI
    You should always pull from the top as someone else stated... That's where your hottest water temps are. I would check your temps at the exchanger and see how much heat that is pulling out and then check your return temp as well at the boiler to see how much heat you are losing.
  7. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    You have a pic of that "free heat machine"? Isn't that one of the brands our friend "Larry the scammer" was selling, since moved on to "Fisher Stove USA".

    TS
  8. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Ty abm, I check the water temps. It wouldn't hurt anything if I switched it around would it even though it's labeled that way?
    Taylor, yes that's the one!! I bought mine used 3 years ago going on my 4th season. The stove was made in 08 and I've already had two cracks in poor welds rewelded.

    Chewy
  9. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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  10. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Well now I really feel stupid bc I didn't get my wheel barrel!!!!
  11. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Ok I just checked my water temps with an ir gun. At the exchanger the temp was 148*, at the stove the feed was 150*, and the return was 148*. My thermostat on owb was 160* and fan running. I'm not sure how accurate my ir gun is, but 2* isn't that bad is it for water temp loss?
  12. Armaton

    Armaton Member

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    No heat loss through the WAHX? Or wasn't building calling for heat?
  13. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

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    RE: Top vs bottom supply..

    The reason your manufacturers piping diagram shows supply at the bottom and return at the top is to try and keep some "head" or pressure available at the inlet of the pump. If it's pulling off the top of the water column in the stove there is virtually no pressure at the pump inlet. You 0011 would die in short order under those circumstances due to cavitation. Such is the nature of an open system.
    It is perfectly normal to observe the difference between actual boiler water temp and what are seeing in the supply line because the cooler water is always at the bottom of the jacket due to stratification. This can be remedied by installing a boiler circulation loop and a large capacity circ to keep the water blended in your boiler but the benefit is seldom worth the cost of installation + electrical costs or running an additional circ of that size.

    What in particular is the problem you are seeing with your system aside from burning wood like it's going out of style?
  14. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Armaton, no the house wasn't calling for heat, my heat exchangers circulate all the time. If that's what you are asking.

    Heaterman, just trying to get more out of it. One reason is my brother in law has same basic stove "hawken" with poorly insulated lines. Melts the snow in the dead of winter. Keeps his house at 75 and burns 1/2 the wood I do. We only keep our house at 65*. We cut wood together and have tracked it. I know not every bodies set up will yield the same results but feel something is wrong with my setup. Every body locally that I talk to with owbs scratches there head when I tell them I ran two feed lines.

    Secondly I'm looking into an empyre pro 200 and don't want to make a mistake and hate my setup.

    Chewy
  15. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    There are some Empyre owners on here, they may chime in, or start a new thread like "calling all Empyre owners" or someting. They seem to be happy with them, I just don't know why Empyre doesn't make a closed/pressureized system.

    TS
  16. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Ya I've talked with a few of the empyre owners on here and they were very helpful. I'm more concerned about my set up. Im hoping to use as much of my setup as possible. What would the closed system help?

    Chewy
  17. RobC

    RobC Minister of Fire

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    If your OWB fan is now turning off because you not getting water up to temp ? Have you checked to make sure the fan doesn't have any debris on or in it. Squirrel cage fans need to be clean to run well. I had an OWB that the fan had to be cleaned regularly because bits of the insulation jacket would get sucked in there....
    Just a thought....
  18. chewy

    chewy Member

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    Robc, Ty for the advice I'll check tomorrow and see if it's blocked. Today when I checked the temps the therm said 160 and I didn't have much wood in it bc it's going to 70* degrees all week. I shut it down til the temp drops down again. I have my therm set to kick on when water temp is as 160* and shut off at 180*. When the fan kicks on it usually drops to 150-155* degree before it starts to get the water warm again.

    Chewy
  19. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

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    I'm wondering if my pump is over sized to my house. I think my stove is not able to keep up with the the amount of water that I'm pumping.

    If the boiler is reaching temp and shutting off while the areas heated are struggling to get warm you more than likely have an emitter problem, as in not enough heat transfer capability at the water temp available in the buildings.

    This could be related to
    A: Heat exchanger not large enough
    B: Not enough flow (GPM) to carry the required heat.
    1: Tubing too small

    If the boiler is not getting to temp and the buildings are also not satisfied, you could have the following:

    A: Heat loss above what the boiler will produce
    1. Areas to check
    a. underground piping
    b. building insulation
    c.
    B: Losing a bunch of available heat because of green unseasoned wood.
  20. chewy

    chewy Member

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    I need to get a moister meter for my wood. I think it's more of the stove struggling to keep up. The house warms pretty good and this year I should see a big difference bc I gutted the exeterior of my 130 year old house and had close cell foam sprayed Osb, house wrap and vinyl. We only want the house at 65* it's just I think something is wrong but can't pin point it. Or this stove just sucks.

    Chewy

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