Hmmm...my stove pipe smell, part 2!

[Swedishchef]

He guys

Well my installer came today.
I cleaned out my chimney: there was barely anything at all in it.
Then we attacked the stove pipes. Let's remember my problem: when lighting my stove, a smell is emitting from the double wall pipe slots.

WELLLL...it turns out it's my stove TOP that smells. . It's as though the paint is still curing or something of the sort. Perhaps an oil coming out!? Here's my problem: IT'S BEEN 3 MONTHS that I have been burning in it. I have had the temp go pretty high. Tomorrow I will buy a thermometer to place ON the stove top for a decent reading.

The installed tried convincing me that this was normal (or that he didn't smell a single thing). I blew my lid. I told him to call the company, get it dealt with or I want a new one! My house smells like curing paint for approximately 2 hours every time I light my stove! I am extremely pleased with the heat output of my stove, I just don't want the smell! Nobody I know who heats with wood has this problem whatsoever.

Any ideas??

Andrew

 

[ggans]

Yeah, get your stack temps to about a 1000, when tremendous amounts of smoke begin to pour off it open the windows.... lol... really cant say for sure about you but if you use black stove paint you will get that. It needs to be burned out , you can do it quick or slow.. When I rebuilt my stove last time the break in went like this , fine,, 1000 degrees , smoke alarms and much smoke, kinda like throwing a switch.

But once its gone its gone..

 

[woodgeek]

A couple years back, one of the makers had a bad batch of paint, don't recall which. Several folks on here reported paint that wouldn't ever finish curing, and IIRC eventually got new stoves.

Any of the principals reading this?

 

[begreen]

There was a mystery Osburn stove a few years back that had the craziest problem. Little black flecks of dust and a smell would occur whenever the stove was burned. The owner was very methodical about testing the problem and was definitely burning hot enough. Finally repaired the stove and all problems were cured. We never heard back from her after that.

Edit: Found the post. It was by Bozlee:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/4464/

 

[Highbeam]

"I have had the temp go pretty high. Tomorrow I will buy a thermometer to place ON the stove top for a decent reading."

How do you know if you were burning the stove hot enough if you've never even put a meter on it?

 

[Swedishchef]

Thanks a LOT Begreen!

That's quite the situation (the link). I don't know if her issue is related to my problem.

I should have just gone with a different wood stove. I just feel like I have bad luck. With a kid on the way, I don't have $2000 lying around for a new stove!!

If the smell does not go away, I am going to sell it to someone for a camp or cottage, get a credit or SOMETHING. Then I need opinions on different stoves AGAIN. In the words of Charlie Brown: GOOD GRIEF. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH.

ANdrew

 

[Swedishchef]

HiBeam:

I am new to the world of burning. Completely new.

Here's why I am sure I got it hot enough: the book says it will smoke for the first few fires. And it did! Big time! There was a white haze in my basement! When my bypass is closed, my flue temp is around 400-450. I try to keep t burning hot. I can hear the metal expand when I cork it tight and let it go.

Now if I was burning at flue temps of 200-250, I would say "it's my fault". But I have had flu temps at 850 And here's the catch 22: it ONLY smells when I light it up. After 2-3 hours it stops creating a smell!

Andrew

 

[Highbeam]

That is odd. When you say flue temp do you really mean internal flue temp or do you mean the temp of the outside shell of the flue. 400 is pretty cold for the real flue gas temp. Metal will expand and tick at very low temps.

Regardless, the stove shouldn't stink after the initial burnoff. I feel bad for those few folks that have had to chase around an ongoing stench from their stove. Is it wood smoke stench, burning dust stench, or chemical solvent stench? I would turn off the lights and use a flashlight to try and see the burn off as smoke.

 

[Swedishchef]

Highbeam

Thanks for your reply.

I do mean the internal flue temperature. I have a probe thermometer put into my double wall stove pipe.

However, I do not agree that 400 is low. Over 450-500 and you're putting too much heat to waste. Aren't you? That is what everyone here has told me and I have read from various other sources. I wouldn't wanna burn it much hotter than that..

I agree, the stove should not stink after the initial burn off. It's paint. I stick my nose to the stove top and can smell it. With a work light shining on my stove, I can see faint shawdows rising from the stove top (not heat waves). It is a pain in the a$$. I have had the stove going now for over 24 hrs and I don't smell it, it's great. However, the minute I let the fire go out and know that I need to re-light, I cringe at the thought.

Like I mentioned earlier, the confusing part is why is it only happening when I light it up?! Something from the process from cold to hot is creating a smell from my stove. It's not normal!!

A

 

[Troutchaser]

Chef,
Let that sucker rip. (These are internal "probe" temps.) My flue pipe took over a month of consistant 1000 deg.+ burns before the smell stopped. You don't have to cruise there, just hit it and back it down. I routinely touch 1100 - 1200 with the downdraft. I was nervous at first. But that is the nature of my beast.
For those first four weeks or so, I knew when I hit 1000 because of the smell. Even posted about it. Wife ran to the back bedroom etc. . . Was it sweet? Tomato/ tomato-.

Maybe this smell is coming at start-up because that is generally when we hit those highest temps and then come down from there. I'm telling you I would sacrifice some wood and do this.

Good luck.

 

[Highbeam]

Highbeam

Thanks for your reply.

I do mean the internal flue temperature. I have a probe thermometer put into my double wall stove pipe.

However, I do not agree that 400 is low. Over 450-500 and you're putting too much heat to waste. Aren't you? That is what everyone here has told me and I have read from various other sources. I wouldn't wanna burn it much hotter than that..

I agree, the stove should not stink after the initial burn off. It's paint. I stick my nose to the stove top and can smell it. With a work light shining on my stove, I can see faint shawdows rising from the stove top (not heat waves). It is a pain in the a$$. I have had the stove going now for over 24 hrs and I don't smell it, it's great. However, the minute I let the fire go out and know that I need to re-light, I cringe at the thought.

Like I mentioned earlier, the confusing part is why is it only happening when I light it up?! Something from the process from cold to hot is creating a smell from my stove. It's not normal!!

A

Well, you may not agree, but 400 is absolutely too low. Remember that these condar probe meters read 100 degrees low at 400 and about 200 degress low at 1000. I daily run my probe meter up to 1200 to keep things clean and then cruise between 600 and 800. You are smoldering your stove.

Read your probe meters face, it is a condar isn't it, the face has the ideal burn range and that range is nearly up to 1000. You're burning too cold.

If your chimney is clean, you've probably built up crud after that cold burning, then I would absolutely run the stove up to the high end of the operating range which is 1200 and see how much of the paint burns off. Do this a few times over a few days and hopefully you burn off the stink.

If not, and the stove still smells with each new fire then I don't know what's wrong with it.

 

[begreen]

Did you mean they read too high? https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51880/

Not all of these Condars read the same. Our's is the older style and it seems to read closer to temp. I could send you mine to try out on your stove if you want to compare readings. Have to promise to send it back though.

 

[Swedishchef]

Trout: I sometimes bring it up nice and hot and turn it back down. When I see my stainless steel liner inside my double wall stove pipe glowing, I turn it down. lately I have not hit high temperatures, it's not cold outside at all. Therefore the chances of creosote forming is less than if it were cold. However, once a week or so I crank it up to flue temperatures of about 700-800 degrees. Here's the catch: it's not my stove pipe that smells, it's the stove TOP. It's only at light up. Why would it ONLY be at light up and not 2 hrs later when it's cruising?? If I open my bypass the temperature climbs quickly since the draft pulls the flames right into the pipes then into the chimney. Whenever I light, as the stove warms up, it smells! And it's not at hot temperatures. Anywhere from 150-500 degrees F.

Highbeam: I am serious, I don'T ever heat over 400. I cruise at 400-450 and that's it. My chimney, after burning 2.5 cords of wood, had 1mm of creosote inside of it. Not even 1/16th of an inch. I must be doing somethign right! However, yes, I do agree that I must burn it properly. Whenever I let my flue temperature reach 800, I start gettign worried. The damn stainless steel liner is glowing red. It should be noted that I normally keep the bypass damper open when lighting. For about 10-20 mins. Perhaps I should try getting the probe temperature high without the bypass open, then creating much more heat in the stove. I can honnestly tell you that my stove runs HOT. I have had stove top temps that are quite high (I presume). All said and done, I gotta fire that bastard stove this weekend. I am gonna kick out the wife and let er fly (hose in hand).
HOWEVER, to my defence, here's what my users manual says about flue temps with my stove: " The ideal temperature for these
gases is somewhere between 275o F and 500o F. Below these temperatures, the build-up of creosote is promoted. Above 500 derees, heat is wasted since a too large quantity is lost into the atmosphere

Does that not make sense?

A

 

[Highbeam]

BG was right, I meant that when your meter indicates 1000 your actual inside temps are 800 or 850. It wouldn't do us any good to try and compare condars because all that would tell us is whether ours agree or not. It might tell us in general that "modern" condars read differently than your old one but we would need lots of data points to try and determine when the meters began to read wrong. Swede's new stove most likely has a new meter so is prone to read higher than actual temps.

Glowing red liner! yikes. Well you're obviously sending plenty of heat up the flue and your 1mm of creo certainly indicates a proper burn. If you are already getting a red hot liner then I would not recommend puching it another couple of hundred. You're as hot as I would feel comfortable.

I'm stumped swede. I really wanted it to be something simple but you've got a tough one there and it sure looks like a defect of some sort in the stove.

Your stove manual likely assumes that you will be measuring the flue temp on the outside of the pipe as the large majority of folks do with magnetic surface meters. Any non-cat stove must be hot to burn clean and that means flue temps between 400 and 1000 all the time that your fire is cruising.

I wish I could help you solve it.

 

[grateful]

Please refresh my memory- is your stove a Harmon? If so, I had the same problem with the harmon oakwood, traded it in for a regency. The regency does not put out the heat like the oakwood but I don't care... When you mentioned 'bypass damper' it reminded me of all of those trips to the basement to open or close the bypass damper. With the regency I have loads of free time to do more enjoyable activities.
My oakwood had burned out gaskets and a small crack in the cast iron under the combustion package.
Thanks for the update.

 

[Swedishchef]

Hey highbeam

Thanks for the reply. It stumps me as well. I am going to fire it up this weekend without the wife present. Then we'll see if it comes back afterwards. When the stove installer was at my place, he said my stove was heating quite well without any issues. Like I told him, I am satisfied with the performance of my stove but not with the damn smell.

My flue temps normally read 450 or so inside my flue. I dunno. I must be doing something properly if I don'T have creosote. I do believe that too much heat is in your chimney is bad though. I think there's a happy balance somewhere in the 450-550 range. I would think that heating until flue temperatures reach 600+++ becomes less efficient since lots of heat is going out the chimney. You'd be throwing out the baby with the bath water

I am stumped as well. I will heat it up this weekend and see what happens. I may not have had my stove "hot" enough. Right now I am trying to find a proper way to determine the temp of my stove top.

Grateful: Naw, it's an osburn 2300. The bypass damper is used when firing up and reloading. It helps create a strong draft, attempting to prevent smokw roll out.

Andrew

 

[Highbeam]

Good luck swede, I can tell you that I can have mty probe meter reading over 1000 and the stove top not even up to 200 yet. Meaning, just because your flue is hot is no reason to assume your stove is hot. A long fire with sustained flue temps in the 600-800 range should have your stove top hot. You do not want any part of your stove to glow red as that would void your warranty and you might be using that warranty here soon to get rid of the stove.

 

[pen]

Hey highbeam

Thanks for the reply. It stumps me as well. I am going to fire it up this weekend without the wife present. Then we'll see if it comes back afterwards. When the stove installer was at my place, he said my stove was heating quite well without any issues. Like I told him, I am satisfied with the performance of my stove but not with the damn smell.

My flue temps normally read 450 or so inside my flue. I dunno. I must be doing something properly if I don'T have creosote. I do believe that too much heat is in your chimney is bad though. I think there's a happy balance somewhere in the 450-550 range. I would think that heating until flue temperatures reach 600+++ becomes less efficient since lots of heat is going out the chimney. You'd be throwing out the baby with the bath water

I am stumped as well. I will heat it up this weekend and see what happens. I may not have had my stove "hot" enough. Right now I am trying to find a proper way to determine the temp of my stove top.

Grateful: Naw, it's an osburn 2300. The bypass damper is used when firing up and reloading. It helps create a strong draft, attempting to prevent smokw roll out.

Andrew

Probe temps of 450 to 550 are much lower than I experience. My probe is 28 inches up the pipe and during a good hot burn with a full load of wood, it'll sit right at the 750-800 range for hours. When I load the stove this way, I still have hot coals to start the next fire up with 12 hours later. With that said, I don't think I'm wasting too much heat up the flue.

I really think you need to run it a bit hotter.

pen

 

[Swedishchef]

I guess I am gonna try and run it hotter this weekend.
Lets hope everything goes smoothly.

A

 

[Troutchaser]

What baffles me is the inner liner glowing at an 800 internal temp. I don't think that correlates. In my limited experience, if you haven't hit 1000 internal flue, it is going to stink when you do. If it's glowing, I'd say you have and the probe is reading low.

And if you haven't hit 600 on the stove top, then it's still going to be throwing off smells until it's tired of hitting 600+. Maybe the stove itself just hasn't gotten hot enough?? Or maybe the thing has some joints leaking out gasses when you take away their bypass.

Like the others, I'm not too concerned with the clean, but high heat I'm putting into the stratosphere. It's keeping the family warm and I'm not constantly feeding it wood.

 

[Highbeam]

Since the stove feeds a liner, I wonder where the probe is mounted and if that effects the temps it displays. I would expect that a vertical section of flue is how you are supposed to mount the probe meter.

 

[Swedishchef]

Hey

Yes, you should install it on a vertical part of stove pipe. However, I did not. I have installed after my first 45 degree bend. I am sure it somehow affects my temperature reading.
I am gonna look for a digital thermocouple probe thermometer in the next week to take an accurate reading

Andrew