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Hole in inside wall of my Englander 25-PDV?!?!?!

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by MassWood, Nov 23, 2007.

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  1. MassWood

    MassWood New Member

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    I've posted a few messages in this forum wondering what the heck could be wrong with my

    Pellet stove that's only a couple weeks old, It's been making a whole bunch of ash since we

    purchased it. On recommendations from this site, Englander, and friends, we've tried five different

    types of expensive pellets, adjusted the trim settings multiply ways, added 6 more feet of

    vertical flue, cleaned and re-cleaned the heck out of the thing even though it was new and to

    no avail it burned the same every single time. Well with the temps getting around 20 tonight I

    decided to once again clean the heck out of the three week old stove and flue. Well, when I was

    cleaning the inside of the stove with a brush I noticed a 1/4 inch hole in the right side of the interior wall.

    I was kind of shocked and wondered if maybe it was just cosmetic, so I got a piece of copper wire and

    I could fish that thing around as far and long as I wanted to. Looks like a welder may have accidentally

    burned this hole, I've skunked up plenty of metal in my limited welding experience, but that's what

    it looks like to me. Could this be what is causing so much ash and non-efficient burn in my stove?

    Attached Files:

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  2. budman

    budman Minister of Fire

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    Mike,Corie where are you :exclaim:
  3. restorer

    restorer New Member

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    I'm surprised this hasn't been moved to the pellet forum.

    When you say excessive amount of ash, what are you comparing it to? Other stoves or same stove model, but different location? What makes it excessive, if the stove is burning properly, the ash is the un-burnable waste.

    Sometimes there is a great deal of difference in the visible ash residue and what is like fly ash and ends up in the baffles. I am burning a pellet now that leaves a gritty heavy ash in the ash pan, but small amount in the baffles. Last year I burned some Heartlands and they were mostly fly ash. If the flame characteristics are good, heat output is good and the ash is what it is. If you are finding a lot of un-burned pellets and indications they are being thrown from the burn pot and smoldering. you may have air supply issues.

    The hole doesn't sound right, but where does it go? And with that size, if it is sucking air into the burn chamber it would likely make some "whistling noise". Definitely not good, but not necessarily the cause. If it were my stove, I'd grab an appropriately sized sheet metal screw and a dab of stove cement or high temp sealer and plug it up. See if it makes a difference.
  4. MassWood

    MassWood New Member

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    I'm sure it's excessive ash for this stove and any stove, I've taken to being obsessive about pellet stoves since we got one, and have probably seen at least 20+

    different stoves in action in just the last two weeks. Sometimes only at a five setting the burn pot will fill up in a matter of a couple hours with crunchy ash and

    smoldered pellets not matter the feed setting. I'm not sure what is on the other side of the hole, that is why I'm hoping some Englander guys might be able to tell me. I

    was already on the same line of thinking as you of patching up the hole with something as simple as a sheet metal screw but didn't want to give HomeDepot any

    reason not to take it back if there is a factory lemon on my hands.
  5. nshif

    nshif New Member

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    Hang on till mike or corrie get here, they will take care of you
  6. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    just saw it , im on it.

    cant see very well in the picture, you said on the right side wall? , check to see if there is a tube connected , the "door ajar" vacuum switch opening is on the right wall. although a 1/4 inch hole would be too big for that.

    im going to be in my office tomorrow morning, probably by 8 am, if ya want give me a call between 8 and 9 , our phone system will tyell you we are closed, but ignore that and hit extension 131, thats my phone. if im there i'll pick up (i should be there, but we dont turn the phones on til 9) if that too early , you can hit that extension after, im there til 12 , but if im on the phone it will give you my voice mail, no biggie, leave me a good number to call you back at.

    i'll get you straight.

    EDIT: forgot the phone number (duuhhhh) 800-245-6489 remember , hit 131 when the recording starts

    mike
  7. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    to moderators/web

    thanks for leaving this post in the main forum , i would have seen it anyway , but i picked it up a bit faster as i read posts in the main first then pellet room

    could be moved now if ya want i am aware of it, but thanks anyway for leaving it for a while
  8. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    masswood, i downloaded your picture. and have been playing with it in photoshop, i may be wrong , but it really looks like the 1/8ID mandrel tubing we use for the door ajar pitot. where exactly is the hole , i know its on the right , but where, is it about 3/4 the way up from the floor to ceiling in there? i may be wrong picture could only be cleaned up so much in my quick and dirty editing, but it really looks like the tube pitot for that vac switch.

    whatever it is , call me anyway if you are having dirty burn issues, we'll see if we cant straighten that out
  9. restorer

    restorer New Member

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    I'm sure it's excessive ash for this stove and any stove, I've taken to being obsessive about pellet stoves since we got one, and have probably seen at least 20+

    different stoves in action in just the last two weeks. Sometimes only at a five setting the burn pot will fill up in a matter of a couple hours with crunchy ash and

    smoldered pellets not matter the feed setting. I'm not sure what is on the other side of the hole, that is why I'm hoping some Englander guys might be able to tell me. I

    was already on the same line of thinking as you of patching up the hole with something as simple as a sheet metal screw but didn't want to give HomeDepot any

    reason not to take it back if there is a factory lemon on my hands.[/quote]

    Well, if I did the edit properly, we have a clearer picture. That crud is not ash, it's clinkers and unburned pellets. You are not efficiently burning. Ash is burn remains, clinkers are unburned remains. You do have a problem. BUT, you have the best of the best in pursuit. Mike and Corie will have the answers.

    Although there are few technical words for burning wood and such, a few are buzz words that call up certain images. Ash is one of them. Charred pieces of smoky crud that used to be pellets is another. You should be "clinker" free. The platitudes that I used above for a clean burning and otherwise, symptom free stove do not apply.
  10. restorer

    restorer New Member

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    Mike:
    We all need to retrain our brains. This isn't the main forum :gulp: This is the KNOT HEADS side of the forum. A few more trips to the hearth and you will not even notice the fact you skip the first listing and adjust your bookmark. :smirk:
  11. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    what did you edit uncle rich?

    masswood , would you post a picture of the pot while burning please, if i can see it it will help me understand whats going on.

    by the way , dont bother with home depot. let me fix you, i can and will do so (i gotta now anyway cause i just told 2.5 million readers i would) <chuckle>
  12. MassWood

    MassWood New Member

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    I'll post a picture tonight, the wife just got home and I'm going to eat dinner and be busy for a bit, sorry the other picture wasn't clear

    that's the best my camera would do, just couldn't get it to focus in any mode.

    Thanks for the quick response I really appreciate it.
  13. restorer

    restorer New Member

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    Mike the text of my post did not separate the quote from the original post. I will learn, I promise, some day, geesh, got pellets to load, can't sit here all night, stupid me, bad keying..... can't keep up..... :-S
  14. MassWood

    MassWood New Member

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    Here are some pictures of the burn pot after only three hours on a 4/4 setting with

    the trim settings at factory specs, 6/4/1. And like I said previously it looks like this

    with four other types of pellets burned, more flue, and the settings in many different

    configurations, 3/3/1 3/7/1 6/6/1 6/4/1 4/6/1 ect.. ect.. The only thing I can think of

    is maybe there was a bad seal somewhere from the start, if that hole doesn't have

    anything to do with it; would an air leak cause it to burn dirty like this?

    Attached Files:

  15. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    I would think it would have to be a BIG leak like a door seal missing.
    Maybe more of an airflow restriction, That is lack of air to the stove or exhaust problem.
    Did you use the outside air kit?
  16. MassWood

    MassWood New Member

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    Yes, I do have the outside air kit on with no major bends or kinks, I also took the shop vac to

    the air intake and exhaust the second day we had it thinking there may have been something in there

    and it still burns the same, is there any way to diagnose an air leak, I was thinking that powder smoke they use to find

    air leaks in houses, but with all the fans blowing I didn't know how well that worked. I tried the dollar bill

    trick and closed it in the door in a few spots and couldn't pull it out. I'm definitely open to any ideas or suggestions.

    Please and thank you.
  17. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    I don't know what you've gone over so far with mike and the guy's.
    But describe you're venting setup.
    I don't know the stove but the burnpot looks full of pellets and coals. Are there air holes in that burnpot?
    On my stove (and I'm sure most are the same) air comes through intake, goes under burnpot, through the holes in the burnpot, follows the heat exchangers, then through the combustion blower, then out the exhaust.
    The pic looks like the airflow at the burnpot is being choked by the ash and coals.
    I wonder if something may have shifted during transport and disrupted this path of air or if maybe there is something wrong with the combustion blower, or the fan blades etc.
    That is assuming the intake and exhaust is truely clear.
    I'll poke around the manuals online but I know mike is gonna fix it for you, before I can
  18. Xena

    Xena Minister of Fire

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    Just call Mike! He gave you his direct line in post #5.
  19. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    we talked today , checked a few things out , will see what we find when mass gets a look at the items im having him look at (stove was burning when we talked so some thiings couldnt be looked at during the fire, the hole in the right side of the firebox , was actually the pitot for the door switch connection , so thats not the issue, still have some things to find out before proceeding , but its well in hand now. just a matter of finding the actual cause and correcting it

    his flue setup by the way is not the problem , seems ok to me how its run.

    we will follow on when more info is available
  20. lilsisof576

    lilsisof576 New Member

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    what was wrong with his stove ours does the same thing.
  21. cntbill

    cntbill New Member

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    I'd be interested in the answer as well. Out burn pot looks like the photos when the stove is on 5 or above.
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