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How About A Firebox Capacity and Dimensions Database?

Post in 'New Forum Hints and your Questions & Suggestions!' started by velvetfoot, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I think it would be very handy to have a database of firebox capacity and dimensions? Whatdya think? I have no idea how it could work. Start a thread and eventually put it into a spreadsheet? It would just be a matter of individual owners measuring their fireboxes and including, maybe, the published firebox capacity in ft3.

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  2. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    Yeah, I mentioned that idea a while back. We really need real numbers on the useable space rather than relying on mfr. numbers, which can be anywhere from 'pretty close' to 'way off.'
    PapaDave likes this.
  3. turbocruiser

    turbocruiser Feeling the Heat

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    I imagine that simply setting the standard that everyone here from the forum would use for usable space when measuring would be tough due to the dozens of variations of stoves but if that standard was set I'd follow it to the letter because I too would totally be interested in such a sheet. Great Idea.
  4. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I can see noting the mfr's number for ft3 on the firebox (if they even publish it - I don't think they all do) if only because some fireboxes are not regular in shape. That whole irregular shape issue is a little tough.
  5. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    I think the mfrs. a lot of times measure the raw firebox size, without baffles, shields or whatever else is installed in there. We could get the square loading area, then note weather there is room at the top some where to fit in another small split or two.
  6. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I have no idea how the cat stoves look inside either. For mine, I would measure to the bottom of the secondary tubes.

    I think it'd still be worthwhile to have the mfr's published value for the capacity.
  7. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I don't think measuring will be a problem. Pretty easy to figure the space usable for wood. Trick would be avoiding the nooks and crannies by only allowing a single measurement in each direction. In my experience with the hearthstone brand, the manufacturer is downright fraudulent in their advertised firebox volume.
  8. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I was thinking mostly of the fireboxes that taper.
  9. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    +1
    For uniformity, you'd have to stick with the biggest cubic rectangle that would fit in the stove. This might be the most unfair to the trapezoidal fireboxes, but there could be a column for notes about stuff like this. The system should only cater so much to mfrs who make a stove that takes a 16" split in the back and a 22" split in the front. Part of the "usability" of a firebox is how it can be loaded with wood that is processed to a uniform size, like all 16" splits. Mfrs of tapered fireboxes would kinda deserve what they get; the point of this spec is usability, and a tapered firebox is less usable than a rectangular firebox of the same volume, IMO.
  10. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    I agree. I had one as I recall, the Quad 2700i. I can't see making use of that area except if you had a longer split. As you say, I can't see a way of loading the stove the max with, say, a 16" split that would fit in the back; There'd always be some space left over. I wouldn't penalize the stoves who could only load side to side though, right?

    So you could have a measured usable space (ie, rectangle), and the mfrs published number for ft3, if it could be found.
  11. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    The dimensions of the rectangle could be "average" vs. minimum so the tapered firebox would get some benefit. That would capture the volume.
  12. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    Not sure what you mean. Front loading? Side loading? N/S vs. E/W log orientation? That would be useful info too.

    Sure, if you're doing a chart, might as well list multiple specs. :)

    You could do a separate category for total volume, but I don't see how trapezoids are much different from nooks & crannies. Other than wedging scraps into the triangular spaces on the sides, the only way to make effective use of a trapezoid is to put, say, 16" splits in the back, then 18" splits in the middle, then 20" splits in the front. . .PITA, the opposite of usability. Only rectangles should be measured in the "usable space" category, IMO.
  13. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    Right about the side to side. Yes, I meant front loading e/w, because the splits can't be loaded vertically. I guess, very short splits could be cut as well to fit it n/s, so I'd say no penalty for e/w.
  14. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    That would certainly be the easiest way to go, yes you're right, it would be better information as well. Same deal with fireboxes that taper top to bottom as with bricks, the measurement should be the smallest dimension.
  15. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    What about using some sort of agreed upon media to measure the usable space? Like say, how many 16" 4x4's (can be oriented in any direction) will fit? Then calculate the total volume occupied by the 4x4's (or 2x4's or whatever but 4x4's are pretty close to a normal sized split.) and use that as your "standard".

    There used to be a standard here and was measured by how many cases of your favorite adult beverage would fit in the firebox..... :p;lol
  16. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Why not just use the measurement criteria from EPA Method 28 that is where the manufacturers got it in the first place.

    "12.2.2 Firebox Volume. Determine the firebox volume in cubic feet. Firebox volume shall
    include all areas accessible through the fuel loading door where firewood could reasonably be
    placed up to the horizontal plane defined by the top of the loading door. A drawing of the firebox
    showing front, side and plan views or an isometric view with interior dimensions shall be provided
    by the manufacturer and verified by the laboratory. Calculations for firebox volume from
    computer aided design (CAD) software programs are acceptable and shall be included in the test
    report if used. If the firebox volume is calculated by the laboratory the firebox drawings and
    calculations shall be included in the test report."

    The BrotherBart Standard is:

    Attached Files:

  17. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    While that is wonderfully scientific and all, we all know that sloping top baffles and protrusions into an otherwise rectangular firebox will have very little effect on the mathematically correct volume but a very real impact on how much actual wood you can get in there. I don't care how big the firebox is. (much ;lol) How much wood can I stuff in it?
  18. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    impressive. i'm jealous.
  19. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Fill the thing with Styrofoam peanuts and then take them out and measure the volume. Please do it with a cold stove.

    "all areas accessible through the fuel loading door where firewood could reasonably be
    placed " says the same thing you are saying.
  20. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    It will hold four but I only had three on hand. ;lol
  21. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    i'm even more jealous. and you have TWO of them? Amazing.
  22. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    O
    One is just hanging out in the basement not even connected. The deal was just too good to pass up.
  23. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

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    Oh geeez, a spare 3.x ft3 of firebox power
  24. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    I've heard of hoarding firewood but stoves? ....... ;lol
  25. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Collecting. Collecting. Classier than hoarding. >>

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