OK, I'm not there yet, but am planning ahead. My stove will fit in the opening of my existing fireplace and there will be no room on the sides between the stove and the brick and only 2-3 above the stove. How exactly am I supposed to attach the tee to the back of my stove?
How do you do the final stove hook up?
- Thread starter Planeweird
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You'll have to make the attachment before sliding the stove into it's opening. Just like the wires behind the computer you're using. Hopefully the top of the liner to the top of the chimney yet.
Daryl said:
Which is a really good way to crush a chimney liner with the sharp front edge of the damper frame when you pull the tee forward to hook it up.
BrotherBart said:
I didnt say use a crowbar to jamb it forward into the front edge of damper. Bring forward as far as possible (without crudhing liner)
The damper should be farther up then the lentil of fireplace opening so there should be some play. If that does not work try hooking up stove collar to the tee separate from stove ( if you can do that on your stove ). 2 or 3 inches at top can go a long way to get it hooked up.
Or you could use a two pc tee if you can get to that area on the inside of the stove so you can join the snout onto tee.
Just my 2 cents as Summit would say.
http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/icc/View_All_Products_2
This Tee has a snout that is two pcs that slip together should work well with your system.
This Tee has a snout that is two pcs that slip together should work well with your system.
For reference he is going to be rear venting a Jotul F3 CB. So he will not have any access to the flue collar from inside the stove.
by the time( angle) you come through the damper and attach the tee the rear legs of the stove will be at the opening of the fp. if not put a short nipple on the tee. 99% of the time the stove will not go back far enough to "fit" inside the fp.
My stove will actually fit back into the fireplace 5-6 inches until the sidewalls of the fireplace taper in and stop further insertion. But I plan on placing it right at the opening of the fireplace. I suppose I'll have to put the block off plate in first around the flex liner.
I also thought I might be able to insert the liner and tie it off with a rope hanging down a foot or two from the top of the chimney and then I could attach the stove and with one person up top pulling the rope and another person easing the stove back into it's place, move the liner the rest of the way to the top plate and secure it.
Does that seem like a logical approach?
I also thought I might be able to insert the liner and tie it off with a rope hanging down a foot or two from the top of the chimney and then I could attach the stove and with one person up top pulling the rope and another person easing the stove back into it's place, move the liner the rest of the way to the top plate and secure it.
Does that seem like a logical approach?
Just my suggestion but if you are going to be placing that F3 at the front of the fireplace then that gives you access to the two Allen screws that hold the top on. Take the top off and that gives you another couple of inches of working room over the top to work on attaching the tee. It also will allow you to get your hand inside the flue collar through to the tee to line it up. I would put the required three screws holding the tee to the liner in from inside the flue collar instead of the normal being from outside in. This will also be the way you clean the chimney. Brush the crud down the liner, take off the top and vac the stuff out of the tee and put the top back on.
It would be better to be coming into the back of the stove with an elbow than a tee with that setup because a tee is going to collect a bunch of soot and creosote in the bottom of it. Flammable stuff. With an elbow you would be cleaning it all out. Also with a elbow, you would be putting the proper crimped end into the flue collar. I would bet that the tee won't mate up to the flue collar because they will be close to the same size.
Just a few thoughts. Worth every dime you paid for them. :cheese:
It would be better to be coming into the back of the stove with an elbow than a tee with that setup because a tee is going to collect a bunch of soot and creosote in the bottom of it. Flammable stuff. With an elbow you would be cleaning it all out. Also with a elbow, you would be putting the proper crimped end into the flue collar. I would bet that the tee won't mate up to the flue collar because they will be close to the same size.
Just a few thoughts. Worth every dime you paid for them. :cheese:
do yourself a favor and avoid craming it back in there. the fireplace body will block much of the radiant heat from that stove.
I would avoid putting a 90 degree elbow on the back of stove. If anything does fell down chimney it will settle right at the bend of the 90.even more chance of creoso te and ash building up in that area and reducing draft or starting on fire.The two pc tee from ICC would let you attach the slip piece to the stove first while it is out on hearth.(You might have to crimp this piece to fit in stove collar) Then slide stove back and the slip section mates with snout on tee .You can cut the slip and snout so you can so you push stove back as far as needed.Just make sure too have about 2 inches of overlap with the slip and the snout.Also this would make cleaning easy slide stove out after you brush chimney and everthing would stay in bottom of tee to be cleaned out using a vac.
FWIW, our F3CB was connected, rear-exit, to an elbow. We burned clean dry wood. Creosote accumulation was a non-issue. When you put the top back on, be sure you get the top on flat and straight. Put a level on it and look at it from the side to be sure.
Thanks for all the great info guys. I'm pretty anal so I think that avoiding creosote and ash build up whether it be in a tee or an elbow won't really be a problem.
However, I have a 30' chimney and the draft is probably going to be pretty strong. I'm thinking about and have been told I should put a key damper inline somewhere. My thinking is that with the 2-4 inches I'll have above the top of the stove, I could put a damper at near the top of the elbow or tee right before it attaches to the liner. This way I can just reach straight back and adjust it if I need to. Does this seem like a logical idea?
BUT I just came across this on woodheat's site:
"A little confusion and bad advice about flue dampers
Hi.
I found woodheat.org to be quite full of information. My first wood stove has been installed, and I'm not sure how to use the flue damper and air inlet supply on the stove. What is the purpose of the damper and how should it be adjusted during various burn times? How does the stove's fresh air supply and the damper work in conjunction? For instance, if one is wide open should the other be, and vice versa?
Look forward to your response,
Rich
Rich,
I don't know what stove this is, but operating instructions are usually provided by manufacturers and those should be your main resource. In fact, we don't recommend the use of flue dampers, unless what you have is a bypass damper that is part of the stove. But I don't have enough information to help you much.
John
Rich replies:
Thanks for the response. The stove is a Waterford Ashling Woodburning stove. It is set up with a rear horizontal flue. Approximately 14" from the flue spigot flange is the damper. The store I purchased the stove from included the damper. I just assumed this was the correct procedure. As a matter of fact there is no mention in the owner's manual about using a flue damper, only the primary air settings. This seems to support the statement -"we don't recommend the use of flue dampers". Why should I not be using the flue damper? A friend has beaten into my head that the flue is critical in controlling the amount of heat the stove puts out. He said if there is no damper or the damper is opened all the way, the heat just goes up the chimney. The Ashling has a 'top air duct assembly' and a 'top plate' with (for lack of proper verbiage) baffles. My interpretation of this design is that these two items are to collect and radiate the heat built up in the firebox. Yes, No? I am very surprised that a wood stove store would promote the use of key dampers.
Rich
Rich,
A flue pipe key damper should only be used when you can't control the rate of combustion from the front end using the stove's combustion air control. Key dampers are associated with various forms of smoke spillage into rooms, the simplest being when someone opens the loading door without first opening the key damper. But key dampers are also implicated in cases in which, as the flue temperature falls towards the end of a burn cycle, draft collapses and the restriction offered by the key damper can produce a condition in which the easiest path for exhaust is out through the combustion air control or any other leak or opening in the appliance. This is not very common but it does happen with cooking ranges or sidedraft wood stoves with rear exit flue collars, for example. The rear exit on your stove makes this a possibility.
Key dampers are only acceptable for non airtight appliances, such as old cast iron "non-airtight" box stoves. Flue pipe key dampers restrict flow even when open, provide a place for creosote to build up and make the flue pipe harder to clean. Your friend has expressed the conventional knowledge related to key dampers; that they prevent heat from being lost up the chimney. But what counts is the rate of flow of gases through the system. The faster the flow, the lower the heat transfer efficiency. If you can slow down the flow to give time for heat transfer, it doesn't matter how you do it. It is incorrect to think that only a damper downstream of the combustion chamber can 'keep the heat in'. By controlling the amount of air allowed into the fire with the air control, you have only one control to manage and you don't suffer any of the downsides to key dampers.
I'm not familiar with the Ashling so I can't comment on the fancy terms used to describe its innards. It could be that the first is just to keep the door glass clear and the second is to improve combustion and heat transfer. Most modern stoves have these components, but some manufacturers like to dress them up with fancy terms.
John
Rich replies:
Thanks for your help. It's interesting how some stores are in business only for the buck. The store I purchased the stove from never asked about the original flue, nor fireplace. They simply stated 'buy this, that and that, and we'll install it'. After a bit of research I opted not to listen to them and had a chimney sweep install a double wall solid pack chimney. It cost more monetarily, but provides greater safety and peace of mind. I appreciate your response to my questions, and will control the burn rate using the stoves intake only and leave the damper wide open.
Thanks, Rich"
That exchange made a lot of sense to me. Are the air controls on a Jotul F3 CB efficient enough to control a strong draft from a tall chimney? If so, then I'll forgo the key damper.
However, I have a 30' chimney and the draft is probably going to be pretty strong. I'm thinking about and have been told I should put a key damper inline somewhere. My thinking is that with the 2-4 inches I'll have above the top of the stove, I could put a damper at near the top of the elbow or tee right before it attaches to the liner. This way I can just reach straight back and adjust it if I need to. Does this seem like a logical idea?
BUT I just came across this on woodheat's site:
"A little confusion and bad advice about flue dampers
Hi.
I found woodheat.org to be quite full of information. My first wood stove has been installed, and I'm not sure how to use the flue damper and air inlet supply on the stove. What is the purpose of the damper and how should it be adjusted during various burn times? How does the stove's fresh air supply and the damper work in conjunction? For instance, if one is wide open should the other be, and vice versa?
Look forward to your response,
Rich
Rich,
I don't know what stove this is, but operating instructions are usually provided by manufacturers and those should be your main resource. In fact, we don't recommend the use of flue dampers, unless what you have is a bypass damper that is part of the stove. But I don't have enough information to help you much.
John
Rich replies:
Thanks for the response. The stove is a Waterford Ashling Woodburning stove. It is set up with a rear horizontal flue. Approximately 14" from the flue spigot flange is the damper. The store I purchased the stove from included the damper. I just assumed this was the correct procedure. As a matter of fact there is no mention in the owner's manual about using a flue damper, only the primary air settings. This seems to support the statement -"we don't recommend the use of flue dampers". Why should I not be using the flue damper? A friend has beaten into my head that the flue is critical in controlling the amount of heat the stove puts out. He said if there is no damper or the damper is opened all the way, the heat just goes up the chimney. The Ashling has a 'top air duct assembly' and a 'top plate' with (for lack of proper verbiage) baffles. My interpretation of this design is that these two items are to collect and radiate the heat built up in the firebox. Yes, No? I am very surprised that a wood stove store would promote the use of key dampers.
Rich
Rich,
A flue pipe key damper should only be used when you can't control the rate of combustion from the front end using the stove's combustion air control. Key dampers are associated with various forms of smoke spillage into rooms, the simplest being when someone opens the loading door without first opening the key damper. But key dampers are also implicated in cases in which, as the flue temperature falls towards the end of a burn cycle, draft collapses and the restriction offered by the key damper can produce a condition in which the easiest path for exhaust is out through the combustion air control or any other leak or opening in the appliance. This is not very common but it does happen with cooking ranges or sidedraft wood stoves with rear exit flue collars, for example. The rear exit on your stove makes this a possibility.
Key dampers are only acceptable for non airtight appliances, such as old cast iron "non-airtight" box stoves. Flue pipe key dampers restrict flow even when open, provide a place for creosote to build up and make the flue pipe harder to clean. Your friend has expressed the conventional knowledge related to key dampers; that they prevent heat from being lost up the chimney. But what counts is the rate of flow of gases through the system. The faster the flow, the lower the heat transfer efficiency. If you can slow down the flow to give time for heat transfer, it doesn't matter how you do it. It is incorrect to think that only a damper downstream of the combustion chamber can 'keep the heat in'. By controlling the amount of air allowed into the fire with the air control, you have only one control to manage and you don't suffer any of the downsides to key dampers.
I'm not familiar with the Ashling so I can't comment on the fancy terms used to describe its innards. It could be that the first is just to keep the door glass clear and the second is to improve combustion and heat transfer. Most modern stoves have these components, but some manufacturers like to dress them up with fancy terms.
John
Rich replies:
Thanks for your help. It's interesting how some stores are in business only for the buck. The store I purchased the stove from never asked about the original flue, nor fireplace. They simply stated 'buy this, that and that, and we'll install it'. After a bit of research I opted not to listen to them and had a chimney sweep install a double wall solid pack chimney. It cost more monetarily, but provides greater safety and peace of mind. I appreciate your response to my questions, and will control the burn rate using the stoves intake only and leave the damper wide open.
Thanks, Rich"
That exchange made a lot of sense to me. Are the air controls on a Jotul F3 CB efficient enough to control a strong draft from a tall chimney? If so, then I'll forgo the key damper.
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