How free is free?????????????

[woodchip]

This is probably not the first time this topic has come up but as it has arisen in the thread on Esse Ironheart vs Margin Flameview cookstoves I thought I might get some expanded views here without taking over a really interesting thread.

[quote author="KodiakII" date="1305146936"]I also get "free" firewood from my farm, but I am taking into account two thousand dollar saws, a trailer and atv used to haul it, a couple of hundred dollars in chain, a chain sharpener, files, axes, mauls,oil, chain oil, gas at a dollar fifty-five a litre, hopefully by the end of the summer a thirty-five hundred dollar splitter, and my time...so free is a rather inaccurate term.[/quote]

When putting the cost of collecting and processing your own firewood (ignoring the time, as to many of us it is a hobby that gets us outside, enjoying a pastime that helps keep us active a fit), is there such a thing as free firewood?

I suspect that it is possible to have the gear, and cut some to sell to offset the running costs, so you do get your own wood without any visible cost, but is it really free?

 

[brianbeech]

I've got about $100 wrapped up in axes (Fiskars) and then I have to purchase gas for the saw (Stihl 026 - dad has two of them). Other than that and gas for the car, it is free most of the time.

Heck, the other day I picked up some Eastern Red Cedar and some Tulip that was already cut to log length and was sitting by the road on my drive home from work. Stopped 3 days in a row and picked up the wood. THAT'S free!

 

[mayhem]

Nothing in life is ever really free. While I might own some of my tools if I didn't burn wood, I doubt I'd have some of what I have. Wouldn't have bought the splitting maul or chopping axe, $60 combined), wouldn't have the Fiskars X27 (another $50), or the sharpener ($10). Certainly wouldn't have the Speeco electric splitter ($300) and I would still have the old craftsman 18" chainsaw I bought for $125 back in 1998 because I bought it to help clear my house lot and killed it with cutting firewood...since I replaced it with a Husky 359 I got a deal on I'd say there's another $275 I've spent of firewood. Would have bought the picku truck anyway, its primary purpose is snow plowing and daily drver.

I'd say discounting time and things like fuel for the truck, etc, I've probably spent a solid $700 on equipment specifically intended to process firewood. Not to mention the $4000 I have wrapped up in the woodstove, chimney, materials to build the hearthpad and installation fees. But still, since I put it in I've saved probably close to $8000 in oil that I didn't have to burn because the stove was keeping most of my house warm for me.

So really even with the investment costs factored it in, I'm pushing a near 100% rate of return over 5 years. Try getting that in your IRA!

 

[muncybob]

as stated, nothing's truly free although I guess it's how you define "free". Being a numbers person, I have a spreadsheet that shows my break even point on my wood boiler investment and into that I factor all the things I have bought to burn wood including gas into the truck I would not have used if not for going to get my "free" wood. Being in only my 2nd year of wood fired heat I'm still a bit off from the break-even to payback time but I sure feel a lot better about spending my money on things other than the oil delivery truck!!

 

[fireview2788]

I'm paying for gas, oil, and maintenance. The splitter and chainsaw were part of the deal when we bought the house. Blessed, that's what I am.


FV

 

[smokinj]

2006 I had 5 gas bill's over 500.00 in a row, so 5 years later 12,500 bucks (not counting shoulder season) Thats pretty close to my total investment. I also heat the hot water now and save on electric as well. Now it just takes a little fuel and can sell my equiment anytime. So not only is everthing paid for but bet I could turn around and get most of that money back as profit.

This is not counting the slab wood I have sold or over 15 cords of firewood. (will not do that one again)

 

[ROBERT F]

Yep as stated before, even my "free" wood is not free. but then again I never had any "free" propain installed in my tank either. Wood just works out to save me lots of money. but costs me lots of time. If I could find somebody to pay me for my free time I would probably pay for propain. untill then I will collect not so free "free" wood.

 

[atvdave]

Like they say... nothing if free..

Sitting on your $800 couch, playing on your $1000 laptop, with your $40 per month high speed internet, powered my your $$$ electric bill.

This post just cost me some $$$.

 

[DexterDay]

My pellet stoves cost thousand of dollars.. The maint was not cheap. I convinced the Wife I "Needed" the Englander 30.... Had to have it because I could heat our home cheaper than just wood-pellets. Well, now I have bought the Splitter, a couple more Chainsaws, gear for cutting, Fiskars, Wood cart, Racks, Moisture meter, and a 100 pack of Super Cedars. Again.. All things I "Needed". I am in for a few more thousand. Is it cheaper than Pellets?? Prob Not.... Is it cheaper than Propane?? No Doubt All in all it is a hobby (woodburning, pellet burning) Always keeps me busy. The best thing of all, is having the Satisfaction of Heating your home for you and your Family, ALL By Yourself.. Never going back to LP. Used to spend around $3,600 a yr on LP. With just pellets, I am just under $1,000 a yr on wood pellets. So add in the Wood heat and I should be heating the home for relatively cheap. Also while having a wood burning device that will kick on and keep our home the pre-determined temp that we set it at. Doing it cheaper and keeping a common temp. Gotta love it..

So the Moral of the story is... It is Cheap to heat with some sort of "Wood" product....... (minus all the "needed toys).. But I Really "Needed" them.......LOL

 

[wkpoor]

If you put a dollar amount on your time then its way more expensive. Take out the time element and you may still meed to amoritize it over several yrs to even break even. I could easily buy my wood, and save a ton of time. But I do enjoy working outside so what the heck.

 

[CTYank]

I guess it depends on what kind of bragging rights you want in the 'hood. The OP mentioned (2) $1000 saws and a $3500 splitter.
For cutting FIREWOOD! That's insane, IMHO. ("My bore's bigger than yours.")

I find that my little, cheapie 30cc and 35cc saws are the go-to saws. Can't see running a 80-90cc saw for limbing and most bucking, way too dangerous.

To get anywhere, you can't be looking at your feet. (No matter the energy pricing/cost today, the balance will continue to shift in favor of renewables. Ya think!)
Look ahead and plan ahead.

 

[Thistle]

Nothing is free,as others have stated.Whether hobbies or work-related.

Worked in the woods part time for 30 yrs now,since I was 17.Worked in the building trades (first 5 yrs carpenters union, past 21 yrs laborers union) on commercial jobsites for the past 26 yrs.Working in the woods has saved me money,made me money, helped keep me warm in the winter & kept me in decent shape during slow times in my regular occupation.Made more sense to me to spend any extra money on my shop equipment & a few toys than gambling,excessive other outside substances like others in my social circle. I just like being out in the woods,whether cutting,walking or looking for Morels right about now. :coolsmile:

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Nothing free but for us burning wood is one whale of a lot of savings over buying propane. I figured years ago if we burned propane we'd soon be in the poor house and it has only gotten worse since then! But even though we have our own wood, we still have to pay land taxes on it. It costs very little for the saw, the splitter and other costs. Spreading the cost of the stove and chimney over 20 years makes it cost very little but they will last longer than 20 years anyway.

Our present saw is around 10 years old and has many more years of work to do yet. Same for atv and trailer but those are also used for other things.

Ah, but looking at the benefits vs the costs, there just is no comparison. Wood heat and the work involved is great. It saves you dollars, gets you exercise, gives you a nice hobby and some even earn a few dollars by selling some. On top of that, occasionally you get to help some needy people which is a good thing to do. All in all, I think we'll continue burning wood for a while.

 

[wannabegreener]

At least we are all getting a 'free' workout.

 

[wkpoor]

I guess it depends on what kind of bragging rights you want in the 'hood. The OP mentioned (2) $1000 saws and a $3500 splitter.
For cutting FIREWOOD! That's insane, IMHO. ("My bore's bigger than yours.")

I find that my little, cheapie 30cc and 35cc saws are the go-to saws. Can't see running a 80-90cc saw for limbing and most bucking, way too dangerous.

To get anywhere, you can't be looking at your feet. (No matter the energy pricing/cost today, the balance will continue to shift in favor of renewables. Ya think!)
Look ahead and plan ahead.

Here comes the prspective thing. If all I had in my equipement was 5000.00 I would feel like I had won the game already. As for saw sizes, its called right tool for the job. 30-35cc yes a limber, 40-60cc mid range firewood up to 16" but not that size all day. 60cc-75cc for the 20" plus sized felling and bucking a lot of logs. 75cc+ for noodling, milling and large trees 30" or bigger.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I have a couple grand in used equipment, half of which has many other purposes. My setup/relationships produce a cord in about 4 hours with about $5 in consumables. Not free but works for me when I compare it to $175 to $200 delivered * 9 on average per year.

 

[woodsmaster]

For me the wood is almost free. Its the equipment I burn it in and the way I heat my buildings that I have a lot invested in. I have over $12,000 invested in burning wood :bug: . But that's better than spending $3,000 or more a year on oil or whatever for the 15 year life expectancy of my heating system. I have free time to cut wood when work is slow in the winter so that makes it a no brainer for me. even If I bought my wood I would still be a lot further ahead than not burning wood.

 

[CTYank]

I guess it depends on what kind of bragging rights you want in the 'hood. The OP mentioned (2) $1000 saws and a $3500 splitter.
For cutting FIREWOOD! That's insane, IMHO. ("My bore's bigger than yours.")

I find that my little, cheapie 30cc and 35cc saws are the go-to saws. Can't see running a 80-90cc saw for limbing and most bucking, way too dangerous.

To get anywhere, you can't be looking at your feet. (No matter the energy pricing/cost today, the balance will continue to shift in favor of renewables. Ya think!)
Look ahead and plan ahead.

Here comes the prspective thing. If all I had in my equipement was 5000.00 I would feel like I had won the game already. As for saw sizes, its called right tool for the job. 30-35cc yes a limber, 40-60cc mid range firewood up to 16" but not that size all day. 60cc-75cc for the 20" plus sized felling and bucking a lot of logs. 75cc+ for noodling, milling and large trees 30" or bigger.

I hope you won't be upset if I don't march in lockstep with your displacement/use schedule, partly because it's simply wrong, IMHO. It's an american thing- we like to think for ourselves.

Some feel no shame using only hand tools. Maybe they have different ideas as to best use of money.

Again, what's a "picco" chain? (And, if it works for you, whose concern is it?)

 

[wkpoor]

I hope you won’t be upset if I don’t march in lockstep with your displacement/use schedule, partly because it’s simply wrong, IMHO. It’s an american thing- we like to think for ourselves.

Some feel no shame using only hand tools. Maybe they have different ideas as to best use of money.

Again, what’s a “picco†chain? (And, if it works for you, whose concern is it?)

If you don't know what picco chain is I have to question your ability to question my assessment of what is the proper chainsaw to use and when.

 

[Woody Stover]

Some feel no shame using only hand tools. Maybe they have different ideas as to best use of money.

Somehow, I just don't see my wife going for the idea of being on the other end of a two-man saw. :lol:

 

[smokinj]

I guess it depends on what kind of bragging rights you want in the 'hood. The OP mentioned (2) $1000 saws and a $3500 splitter.
For cutting FIREWOOD! That's insane, IMHO. ("My bore's bigger than yours.")

I find that my little, cheapie 30cc and 35cc saws are the go-to saws. Can't see running a 80-90cc saw for limbing and most bucking, way too dangerous.

To get anywhere, you can't be looking at your feet. (No matter the energy pricing/cost today, the balance will continue to shift in favor of renewables. Ya think!)
Look ahead and plan ahead.

Here comes the prspective thing. If all I had in my equipement was 5000.00 I would feel like I had won the game already. As for saw sizes, its called right tool for the job. 30-35cc yes a limber, 40-60cc mid range firewood up to 16" but not that size all day. 60cc-75cc for the 20" plus sized felling and bucking a lot of logs. 75cc+ for noodling, milling and large trees 30" or bigger.

I would say that is right on.....Home owner thinking will be much different, or the 3-4 cords a year guy. (Pinko chain is just a small chain mini if you will) .043 I be-leave.

 

[mayhem]

Spent several years processing about 6-7 cords a year with nothing more than a set of basic yellow handled axe, 6lb maul, 10lb sledge and a Craftsman 18" 42cc saw. In the past year with my wife's blessing (and help) I have upgraded to a Fiskars X27, Speeco 5ton electric splitter (which realistically seems to split just about everything I have access to cut or scrounge) and a Husqvarna 359 saw. Only used each a little bit...but already there has been a significnat upgrade in my processing capacity...more importantly I will be spending alot less time to do the same amount of work.

I agree on the multi-saw right tool for the right job perspective, but also note that for an average homeowner, most of that goes right out the window due to the cost of entry. I think a 50-60cc one saw plan with a couple different sized bars is a pretty reasonable plan and is where I'm at with my setup. Got a 20" br for the 359 and spent about an hour limbing, bucking and de-stumping 8 40+' long 15-18" diameter trees last weekend. Almost 2 tanks of gas and I've got a pretty big pile of rounds and brush now. Saw was eating it all up and asking for more...I got tired before it did.

 

[SolarAndWood]

Cost of entry goes way down if you are willing to buy used. I wouldn't have any of the equipment I have if I had to pay new retail. Of course if I bought new, I wouldn't spend the time I do working on chit.

 

[wkpoor]

My neighbor does firewood 364 days a year and he only has one saw a Dolmar 5100s. It fits right in the middle for him. If he gets into some bigger stuff I help him out cutting them down to size. He can noodle a little but it goes relatively slow compared to a bigger saw.

 

[smokinj]

My neighbor does firewood 364 days a year and he only has one saw a Dolmar 5100s. It fits right in the middle for him. If he gets into some bigger stuff I help him out cutting them down to size. He can noodle a little but it goes relatively slow compared to a bigger saw.

Quads has done I think over 30 cords this year with a 261 (it may be a 260) and a maul! lol Its hard for me even to imagine it.