How high is your chimney or stove pipe

[stanleyjohn]

How high is your chimney or stove pipe and those with lots of lenght do you have any problems with the draft being too great?.My stove was connected with 25ft of ss pipe.

 

[Hogwildz]

22' double wall insulated rigid, with 5' flex at bottom. 27' total, draft is great, burns hot when needed.
If you have a good seal where need be, you'll be fine. One small door gasket leak and yes, she will run like a freight train.
I'd personally rather have a lil too much draft, then not enough.

 

[DriftWood]

I got about 19 feet of insulated liner in a exterior brick chimney. When it in the 50s outside startup draft is a problem till things heat up a little.

 

[michaelthomas]

20' SS pipe and 8' of stove pipe. Draft is perfect. And 28' exterior masonry chimney. SS much much better.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Not yet installed, but the contract calls for 31' of 6" stainless steel with a full poured (as I understand it) insulator filling up the additional space in the 12"x12" tile masonry external wall chimney. Sounds like I'll have the highest...a problem? My Quadrafire dealer doesn't think so, in any case is the risk too much draft? Is it harder to get the draft started when longer? The 6" pipe will connect to a fireplace insert, so the smoke line is almost vertical, no horizontal other than the jog around the smoke shelf.

 

[Hogwildz]

Just hope you never have to replace that s.s. liner, once that crap is poured around it, its a whole new problem getting it out if need be.
Your should have zero draft problems at 31'. Each set up is is different though, so nothing is ever set in stone.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Hogwildz,

Thanks for the insight on "...that crap"... sounds like you have some direct knowledge of it. Can you give me a supplier name? I will talk with the Q-dealer who gave me a quote. I in fact had put this whole subject off for about 10 years as I didn't want to "destroy" the existing hand built brick chimney/wall (it has three flues, LR, MBR and Basement). But, the problem, related to the use of a old fashioned insert without an airtight chimney (that was never a problem getting it to draw) finally resulted in an objectionable old smoke smell, and it seems the type of insulation recommended to me will really seal the existing flue off. I did have a Lock-tight damper installed on the subject chimney, but that didn't solve the smell problem, and while I'm sure it did stop dynamic sir flow, it does place the chimney "inside" the house whereas the tradition damper at the top of the fire chamber, just below the smoke shelf, puts the chimney outside the house. Of course the metal damper was not very well fitting.

I have been using the fireplace, only twice last year, as an open fireplace with glass doors. The glass doors don't seem to help either. I may have missed a chance to try some of the "snake oil" that some recommend to clean out old creosote, the stuff you spray on the wood before burning, and I guess spray on the firebox and chimney where you can before starting a fire. That may have helped, but I didn't do it. p.s. I also washed out the entire lower fire chamber to no real help, may have helped a bit, but did solve the problem for my wife's sensitive nose...doesn't bother me a lot.

Speaking of high chimney, the basement flue is a real long stack, must be about 40' - plus a horizontal run of about 4' from an airtight stove to a get through the foundation wall to reach the chimney, and it had only minor problems getting a updraft going. It was recommended that for the basement the best strategy was to open the clean-out door and put a lit piece of newpaper directly into the base of the chimney. That said, I didn't usually have much of a problem. I had burned anthracite coal in the basement for a couple of years, no creosote there, but a lot of acid. I haven't used coal in more than 5 years, and wood only occasionally, none this year. My use of wood/coal heat went down to recreational heating after I had a geothermal heat pump installed about 15 years ago, still we enjoyed the extra cozy warmth of a fire in the AT-stove and/or fireplace insert. Given the ongoing energy crunch, including increases in the cost of electricity, and the fact I have access, and still some strength, to "free" hardwood I am again temped to start at least supplemental wood heating to reduce heat pump costs.

 

[Highbeam]

Tall/long chimneys generally create too much draft once they are up to temp.

Mine is 14', the manufatcurer's minimum, of vertical rigid pipe. 8' class A and 6' of double wall in the living space. It works great but not too great that I need to worry about overdraft.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hogwildz,

Thanks for the insight on "...that crap"... sounds like you have some direct knowledge of it.
Crap is merely my opinion. I have heard it works, problem is, if the liner ever needs to be replaced, fagettaboutit.
Its now encased in the cured insulation & original liner/chimney. And I cannot see doing much after that except to demolish the chimney with liner and rebuild. I suppose you might be able to sneak a 5.5 liner down the 6" if need be. Just too much BS for me.
I myself ran insulated double wall rigid from the top to the first flue tile at the bottom, then 5' of flex through the smoke chelf & damper area and to the insert outlet. The rigid is pre-inslated in between the inner & out shells. Top plate up top, block off plate at the bottom just below the old damper area. I have no smell problems.
And if I need to remove/replace the liner at any point, I just disconnect at the insert, and pull her up. Not as easy it sounds due to the weight, but still very doable.

Can you give me a supplier name?
http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/
http://hartshearth.com/
http://www.ventingpipe.com/
I bought my set-up from Ventingpipe.com
All 3 are decent dealers. At the time, ventingpipe was the most economical.

I will talk with the Q-dealer who gave me a quote. I in fact had put this whole subject off for about 10 years as I didn't want to "destroy" the existing hand built brick chimney/wall (it has three flues, LR, MBR and Basement). But, the problem, related to the use of a old fashioned insert without an airtight chimney (that was never a problem getting it to draw) finally resulted in an objectionable old smoke smell, and it seems the type of insulation recommended to me will really seal the existing flue off. I did have a Lock-tight damper installed on the subject chimney, but that didn't solve the smell problem, and while I'm sure it did stop dynamic sir flow, it does place the chimney "inside" the house whereas the tradition damper at the top of the fire chamber, just below the smoke shelf, puts the chimney outside the house. Of course the metal damper was not very well fitting.

I have been using the fireplace, only twice last year, as an open fireplace with glass doors. The glass doors don't seem to help either. I may have missed a chance to try some of the "snake oil" that some recommend to clean out old creosote, the stuff you spray on the wood before burning, and I guess spray on the firebox and chimney where you can before starting a fire. That may have helped, but I didn't do it. p.s. I also washed out the entire lower fire chamber to no real help, may have helped a bit, but did solve the problem for my wife's sensitive nose...doesn't bother me a lot.
Don't waste your time with the BS creosote cleaners. If they do anything at all, I would imagine it should be used from day one when the chimney is new and used on a regular basis to have any real benefit, if any.
I do suggest either yourself or calling a sweep to clean the chimney out as best as can be. Then if you choose to run insulated liner in any capacity, you will be up to present code & temp rating.


Speaking of high chimney, the basement flue is a real long stack, must be about 40' - plus a horizontal run of about 4' from an airtight stove to a get through the foundation wall to reach the chimney, and it had only minor problems getting a updraft going. It was recommended that for the basement the best strategy was to open the clean-out door and put a lit piece of newpaper directly into the base of the chimney. That said, I didn't usually have much of a problem. I had burned anthracite coal in the basement for a couple of years, no creosote there, but a lot of acid. I haven't used coal in more than 5 years, and wood only occasionally, none this year. My use of wood/coal heat went down to recreational heating after I had a geothermal heat pump installed about 15 years ago, still we enjoyed the extra cozy warmth of a fire in the AT-stove and/or fireplace insert. Given the ongoing energy crunch, including increases in the cost of electricity, and the fact I have access, and still some strength, to "free" hardwood I am again temped to start at least supplemental wood heating to reduce heat pump costs.

It cost me $300.00 to heat from late October to last week. IN oil, that would have amounted to somewhere around $2,400.00 easily, if not more. The future ain't looking no better.
While I am in my early 40's and still able to do things, I choose to cut & split & save that money from the oil for other things.
Pretty soon, looks like baseboard electric might be more economical than oil or gas. But for me, for now, I'll heat entirely with wood.
And here, a heat pump ain't worth jack sheet under 30 degrees, which we get quite a few days/nights below that 20's teens, single digits etc. So thats not really a realistic option for me. Geothermal maybe, but I don't have the money for that set up, and at this point in my life, prolly won't see a payback on it.

Don't rush, research, take your time and be happy with your final decision.
Don't take just my word on it, research the poured in insulation, and weight the pros & cons.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

hogwildz, thanks for the great input, I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience/knowledge.

On another thread on this group of forums I've be encouraged that I can also make use of some softwood I have on my property, mostly eastern cedar and white pine, also some other evergreen, spruce I think. When I buy firewood, and may go for bulk wood to get the price down, it is all mixed hardwoods. Anyway, the inputs pointed out that people in the NW, for example, burn nothing but softwood and if the chimney is kept at the correct temperature creosote is not increased by burning softwoods. It was further pointed out that Quadrafire is a NW based company and sells widely in the NW where softwood is the dominate fuel.

My geothermal installation, including the ground loop, two 250' vertical loops, cost about $12,000 in 1991, it has more than paid for itself by now. And to you point, I installed at a time that it was just competitive with oil heat on btu per dollar. Now with oil up more than 300% and electricity up "only" about 40% the geothermal is much more cost effective than oil, still not cheap. NJ gets cold, and HOT/HUMID. The Geo is also much more efficient in airconditioning/cooling too, with and EER of about 20, regardless of the outside temperature. When I installed, NJ Power and Light had a program to encourage people to go geo, they gave me approximately $3,000 in rebates, cutting my cost to $9,000, not so far from the cost I'm looking at for a new Quadrafire Insert, total now estimated at $4,400 installation and taxes included.

I'll have an in-depth discussion with the Quad-dealer. Your and other inputs have provided much help in formulating my questions.