How to tie in pellet boiler into existing oil boiler

[Vtpenguin]

Its about 1800 sq ft. All one floor, not counting the expansive cavernous basement I have. Yeah, it's probably not the best insulated. I'll be doing some work on that, but I have these high ceilings, and there is now way to add insulation to them that I am aware of. They are vaulted.

What about a wood boiler in My garage? Are they cheaper?

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I understand the need to tiptoe around because some people on this site may be overly sensitive when discussing a product that they may own. However I wish it weren't like that. I would never take a critique of my boiler personally. There is great value in honest and objective discussion of both the negative and positive aspects of the different products out there. Anyhoo, my first season with the Biowin has been a positive experience so far as winter is winding down. I will probably do some type of post at the end of the season, most likely in late April.

You Windhager guys are amusing. So name the boiler that cannot be named because it would offend people.

From my perspective, if I didn't have a backup boiler for my Harman, my homeowners insurance agent would take me off his Christmas card list.

 

[DBNH22]

You Windhager guys are amusing. So name the boiler that cannot be named because it would offend people.

From my perspective, if I didn't have a backup boiler for my Harman, my homeowners insurance agent would take me off his Christmas card list.

Glad you're amused. Maybe it's not that common but I have seen a few posts on here in the past where people got a little touchy when their equipment was being criticized. Other times I have seen people go out of their way to say things like "well you know there is a boiler brand that isn't that great but I'm not going to say which brand it is, just read the other threads." That's all I was alluding to and my point was that we should all be open to constructive criticism on this site. After all a big part of being here is learning from one another right?

That being said, my personal experience with the pellet boilers is based solely on having viewed several of them last year prior to purchasing the Windhager which I have been happy with this season. I wanted to view a Kedel and see a demo but never got a call back from Jacob at Interphase after having an initial phone conversation with him. The Frohlings and Okofens are out of my price range so I did not bother visiting the dealers on these ones.

I actually did view the Harman PB105 and the Hydroflex60 as well as the Windhager Biowin in person. I saw all of them in action. From viewing them alone it seemed to me as if the Windhager was a higher quality product for very little additional cost. The Windhager dealer just seemed more knowledgeable than the Harman dealer. I also read a lot of the posts on here in which people were saying that they had to replace the burnpot on the PB105 several times and that Harman had not resolved the issue. In addition to that I spoke with several people on here who had experience with the Windhager and had good things to say about it. All of this led me to choose the Windhager. That is my personal experience and view of things but of course I'm happy for anyone that may have bought any other brand of pellet boiler and had a good experience with it.

As for the insurance company requiring a backup. I called my insurance company to let them know that I'd be installing a pellet boiler and using it as my primary heating appliance. They said that was fine and that it would not negate my homeowner's policy or in any way adversely affect it. They were more than happy to oblige when I asked them to send me a letter stating as much. I left the oil boiler in place but they never even asked about it or having a backup for the pellet boiler.

 

[__dan]

To me, oil heat is obsolete and there is no one who should be installing oil. The alternatives are so much better, pellets or building a low heat, self heating house, new from the ground up.

In a pellet boiler, there are a few must have features. It must have a modulating firing rate or turndown, in the range of 3 to 1. It's a lot more efficient and better for the boiler to stay on at a lower fire rate that matches the load instead of on/off control on an aquastat. It must have automatic (electronic) draft control, variable speed draft fan, and automatic motorized supply air dampers. It must be built to go the distance, expected lifetime with minimal repairs should be over 20 years. It must or should run unattended for long periods and be relatively forgiving of poor maintenance by the owners, which will happen. Some type of effective self cleaning and robust safety features, safe by design and safe with the safety controls..

Low cost is an illusion. High quality materials are a labor saver on the short run and a money saver in the long run. Personally, I would be livid and inconsolable if I spent the kind of money necessary and found out after the fact that I had to respend to get something that actually does the job. I save the money to do it right. It was reading the board here, the complaints and problems others were experiencing, that sold me on the Froling.

I have oil backup but have not burned a drop for the second year. I only have oil because it's necessary for the cordwood boiler, not because I want it.

 

[DBNH22]

To me, oil heat is obsolete and there is no one who should be installing oil. The alternatives are so much better, pellets or building a low heat, self heating house, new from the ground up.

In a pellet boiler, there are a few must have features. It must have a modulating firing rate or turndown, in the range of 3 to 1. It's a lot more efficient and better for the boiler to stay on at a lower fire rate that matches the load instead of on/off control on an aquastat. It must have automatic (electronic) draft control, variable speed draft fan, and automatic motorized supply air dampers. It must be built to go the distance, expected lifetime with minimal repairs should be over 20 years. It must or should run unattended for long periods and be relatively forgiving of poor maintenance by the owners, which will happen. Some type of effective self cleaning and robust safety features, safe by design and safe with the safety controls..

Low cost is an illusion. High quality materials are a labor saver on the short run and a money saver in the long run. Personally, I would be livid and inconsolable if I spent the kind of money necessary and found out after the fact that I had to respend to get something that actually does the job. I save the money to do it right. It was reading the board here, the complaints and problems others were experiencing, that sold me on the Froling.

I have oil backup but have not burned a drop for the second year. I only have oil because it's necessary for the cordwood boiler, not because I want it.

Dan, I'm just curious if you use the Frohling for DHW in months when you're not heating.

 

[__dan]

Dan, I'm just curious if you use the Frohling for DHW in months when you're not heating.

Yes. With the slabs off I can cold start and make 80 gallons of DHW with the 2 gallon pail of twigs and branches in the picture.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/twigs-for-dhw.108749/

 

[chken]

Hi from frost cold VT. I've decided to go for a pellet boiler, but am sort of lost on how I can install this myself. Was quoted 10k to 15k for a pellergy, kedel or similar installed. Am looking at doing a Harmon stove with conversion kit, or if less expensive, a LMF Americas heat, if I can find one. What I'd like to do is connect it in series to My Weil McLean, to use its plumbing valves pumps, etc. I just don't see how I do that, or what I need to buy in addition to the boiler itself.



I guess what I need is a pellet boiler integration/installation for dummies. Any help and guidance would be appreciated.

I would recommend looking at a pellet stove, getting familiar with it, and then making a decision based upon some user experience. A boiler is a big expense, no one wants to make a mistake.

Also, if you want to learn about how a system is piped, and if you were looking at the Harmans, just download their manuals, I'm sure they show basic serial and parallel plumbed setups.

 

[DBNH22]

I second what chken just said. "No one wants to make a mistake." Now that winter is winding down there's no need to rush out and buy something new on an impulse. You should take at least two or three months to research any and every product that you might be interested in, see demos on all of them, do internet research, talk to people who already own them, talk to plumbing heating guys, look into state/federal rebates and financial assistance etc etc etc

You'll enjoy being in your nice warm home next year with whatever solution you choose providing that warmth knowing that you have no regrets about the decisions you've made.

 

[iceguy4]

To me, oil heat is obsolete and there is no one who should be installing oil. The alternatives are so much better, pellets or building a low heat, self heating house, new from the ground up.

Well this is a brazen statement. Pellet equipment is NOT in anyway as reliable as oil . Problems can be as simple as pellet selection...Things can happen with "fuel" delivery in pellet systems that oil systems don't have to deal with. I would NEVER set up a house (in an area subject to cold enough weather to freeze pipes) with a "stand alone" pellet burner.. Just saying

 

[__dan]

Well this is a brazen statement. Pellet equipment is NOT in anyway as reliable as oil . Problems can be as simple as pellet selection...Things can happen with "fuel" delivery in pellet systems that oil systems don't have to deal with. I would NEVER set up a house (in an area subject to cold enough weather to freeze pipes) with a "stand alone" pellet burner.. Just saying

I would probably not advise an owner to install a pellet boiler if they also did not want to do the maintenance. Having a contractor come in to clean the ash out would probably negate the fuel savings. Those people may as well live in an apt or condo. I routinely advise insulation and siding upgrades or building new with super efficiency methods and materials.

I would never advise a pellet boiler install that required routine maintenance that was any more than ash removal and light brushing. I would never recommend an appliance that had a creosote buildup problem.

I am recommending standalone pellet boilers for everyone who does not gave gas available as the alternate to oil hydronic. That and building new with super insulation. I would only recommend one of the European pellet boilers. It would have to be comparable to the Froling. I would not consider and advise against the PB 105 in all situations. The boiler needs to have a modulating firing rate, burn clean, and self clean. I will be very happy for the customers when Harmon runs a suitable competitor in the market.

 

[timss13]

Can you run a pellet boiler when you have steam radiators?

 

[DZL_Damon]

Can you run a pellet boiler when you have steam radiators?

Not if your running steam through them... but perhaps someone has made a boiler/burner that is capable of making steam. I know they CAN make steam, it's just the controls aspect behind it.

If you are running water through them, then it will run VERY well. Extra thermal mass is good for a modulating system.