Hydrogen on Demand
- Thread starter oilstinks
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
I call shenanigans on all such devices!
Last I knew, the laws of thermodynamics hadn't been repealed yet.
It takes more energy to disassociate water than you get back out of it during combustion. All devices which use electricity from the alternator will decrease your mileage, BS testimonials to the contrary.
Last I knew, the laws of thermodynamics hadn't been repealed yet.
It takes more energy to disassociate water than you get back out of it during combustion. All devices which use electricity from the alternator will decrease your mileage, BS testimonials to the contrary.
Attachments
Adios Pantalones
Minister of Fire
Not sure what "hydrogen on demand" is, but titus speakum truth. There is no way to take water, extract hydrogen, turn it back into water, and GAIN energy. In fact- you lose energy due to ineficiencies. You're basically rolling a ball up a hill, then pushing it down the hill again.
Now- as a storage medium for say solar- there is some hope on the horizon. It will be nice to be able to manufature large amounts of explosive gas on demand
Now- as a storage medium for say solar- there is some hope on the horizon. It will be nice to be able to manufature large amounts of explosive gas on demand
Dune
Minister of Fire
Google Browns Gas, or water gas. While it's true that there is no free lunch, hydrogen made from either waste heat or solar energy is viable. Water gas has been used for centuries, when there is a need for clean, potent, gaseous fuel. As the cost of fossil fuels spiral upwards, processes with no fuel charge become viable.
Hydrogen on Demand is a (bullbleep) system that uses electricity from your alternator to make hydrogen from water, injects said hydrogen into your cylinders, and dramatically improves your fuel mileage (horse pucky).
Examples:
http://www.hodcars.com/
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/hydrogenondemand.htm
There are legitimate ideas, wherein some sort of chemical reaction releases hydrogen when needed. These are seen as an alternative to pressurized tank storage of hydrogen gas. Note that this isn't a free lunch, since energy is needed to produce the chemical, or as in the example below, in the production and recycling of the metals in the aluminum alloy.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080219133226.htm
Herein lies a problem of the hydrogen economy. Hydrogen is not a source of energy. There are no pools of liquid hydrogen that we can just suck up. It takes energy to produce hydrogen, so it is more accurate to say hydrogen is a storage medium, just another "battery". The energy must come from elsewhere. Perhaps we will get to the point where there is enough available electricity from nuclear power or renewables that we can produce sufficient hydrogen to get to a hydrogen economy. I am doubtful that this will truly come to pass. I think most uses will be satisfied by electrical power and motors once improved electrical storage comes along, be it better batteries, flywheels, or whatever. Perhaps hydrogen will be useful for applications where electrical storage cannot be dense enough, such as long haul freight, farm and construction equipment, etc.
The other big problem with hydrogen is distribution. As a gas, this tiniest of molecules leaks out of everything, permeating right through vessel walls. Liquefying helps, but that takes a lot of energy, and cryogenic hydrogen is so cold that it is really hard to handle. Imagine the expense of sufficiently insulated pipelines!
So, a hydrogen economy will require local production. Unless, of course, a chemical reaction method to make hydrogen on demand becomes practical.
Iceland may be the world's testbed. They have a lot of clean geothermal power. They are working on hydrogen fueling stations that tap this power and produce hydrogen on site. Then the switch to hydrogen powered cars. They also have the advantage of being less than 40,000 sq miles and only about 316,000 people, 1/3 of whom live in Reykjavík.
I'll stop now. The physics teacher in me just kicked in, but none of you are actually in my class, so I'll call it a day.
Examples:
http://www.hodcars.com/
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/hydrogenondemand.htm
There are legitimate ideas, wherein some sort of chemical reaction releases hydrogen when needed. These are seen as an alternative to pressurized tank storage of hydrogen gas. Note that this isn't a free lunch, since energy is needed to produce the chemical, or as in the example below, in the production and recycling of the metals in the aluminum alloy.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080219133226.htm
Herein lies a problem of the hydrogen economy. Hydrogen is not a source of energy. There are no pools of liquid hydrogen that we can just suck up. It takes energy to produce hydrogen, so it is more accurate to say hydrogen is a storage medium, just another "battery". The energy must come from elsewhere. Perhaps we will get to the point where there is enough available electricity from nuclear power or renewables that we can produce sufficient hydrogen to get to a hydrogen economy. I am doubtful that this will truly come to pass. I think most uses will be satisfied by electrical power and motors once improved electrical storage comes along, be it better batteries, flywheels, or whatever. Perhaps hydrogen will be useful for applications where electrical storage cannot be dense enough, such as long haul freight, farm and construction equipment, etc.
The other big problem with hydrogen is distribution. As a gas, this tiniest of molecules leaks out of everything, permeating right through vessel walls. Liquefying helps, but that takes a lot of energy, and cryogenic hydrogen is so cold that it is really hard to handle. Imagine the expense of sufficiently insulated pipelines!
So, a hydrogen economy will require local production. Unless, of course, a chemical reaction method to make hydrogen on demand becomes practical.
Iceland may be the world's testbed. They have a lot of clean geothermal power. They are working on hydrogen fueling stations that tap this power and produce hydrogen on site. Then the switch to hydrogen powered cars. They also have the advantage of being less than 40,000 sq miles and only about 316,000 people, 1/3 of whom live in Reykjavík.
I'll stop now. The physics teacher in me just kicked in, but none of you are actually in my class, so I'll call it a day.
homebrewz
Minister of Fire
Perhaps if you had one of these contraptions on a carburated car, rather than fuel injection, you might see a slight gain, or at least break even.. while going downhill. Fuel injection takes up a lot of juice, so adding one these things to most cars are likely to decrease your mileage somewhat, and probably trick the oxygen sensor into thinking that there is too much air getting into the mix and maybe increase the fuel/air ratio!
- Status
Similar threads
