I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

[losnshel]

I'm glad I found this site as I am about to lose my mind! We need an alternate source of heat in our house. Right now we have electric baseboard, YUCK! We are cold all winter and pay$300-$400 per month. Electric is about to go up 30% and we cannot decied what to put in our fireplace to make it efficient. Pellet inserts are nice, but pellets are actually rather expensive right now at $300 per ton and from what the dealers say we would go through 1 ton per month? (our house is 1800sqft) Propane is cheap now, but for how long? Coal is dirty and very hard to maintain and light at first? And natural gas is least expensive, but not as warm?

Anyway, as far as pellet inserts go (which is the way we are leaning right now) we are debating between a Napoleon NPI40 which is $3500 installed and the Lopi Yankee Bay at $4800 installed?

PLEASE, PLEASE help me I want to order whatever I;m going to order before the wait time for install is too long.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Add-on: Okay, maybe I should be thinking about wood inserts too?????? Are they very hard to light and keep attending to or nnot? What is your experience?

 

[Jags]

I assume from the lack of mentioning wood that a wood stove is not an option?? If that is in fact true, you may want to slip over to the pellet head side of this site for some of your answers. Many wise folks over there that can answer your Q's. (or maybe one of our fine mods will gently slip this into the appropriate place).

 

[Ken45]

Well it depends on your situation. But I am not one to recommend a pellet stove. We bought one two and a half years ago. It's been a disappointment.

Last year we installed a good, modern wood stove (Pacific Engineering Summit). We are very happy with it! Even if you have to buy your firewood, a wood stove is probably more economical than a pellet stove and firewood prices are not as volatile as pellet prices.

Last winter, we heated the house (1800 sq ft) with 3 cords of wood. Depending on your house, I think a ton of pellets per month might be realistic, or might be optimistic.

We have found the quality of heat from the wood stove a lot better than from the pellet stove.

Good luck.

Ken
southern Ohio

 

[jtakeman]

Well, I prefer a pellet(Multifuel) stove. Much easier than wood. Not as messy and NO BUGS! No getting up inthe middle of the night to add wood or wake up to a dead stove. No chopping kindling and ripping news paper. Scratching your arms hauling the wood. Slivers. Ect-ect. Did I mension the bugs and the mess?

I heat a 2k+ sqft home, Raised ranch. Stove in basement. So I am heating both floors. I only used 3 1/2 tons last year. The pellet stove has a thermostat like a furnace. It will automatically start when you need heat. Most have large hoppers where you only need to fill once a day. Most days are about a bag a day. So for about $6.00(best pellets) I can heat my home. Easy to me.

More and More we are seeing Multifuel stoves being added to the market. Multifuel stoves burn corn and other grains very well, Run just like a pellet stove. But the best part is the burn the cheaper pellets with ease that you would find at the big box stores. They are no where as picky as a standard pellet stove and will not need to be cleaned everyday. They also have larger as pans that go about a month before you need to clean them. There will be more fuels available in the future for these stoves. Straw pellets, switchgrass, cherry pits. And much more.

I was a wood burner. Burned for more than 4 years. I cut split stacked and hauled restacked my own wood too! The heat is very close to wood and It is so much easier. And yes to save the delivery fee I still haul my own. The hauling and the stacking is much easier too! Yes wood may be cheaper. But your going to work for the savings. Instead of spending weeks working on the fuel supply. I can generally get it done in a few days or maybe a long weekend(how much is your time worth?).

just my 2
jay

 

[imacman]

I have to agree w/ Jay.

I was a wood burner too before I "saw the light" and switched to pellets. And if the price is an issue, right now Lowes & Home Depot are selling pellets pretty cheap.....much less than $300/ton. And as Jay says, if you burn 1 bag a day x 30 days, even at $6/bag, thats only $180/month.

In reality, you should be able to get 3-4 tons for about $220/ton, or $4.40/bag....that works out to approx. $130/month.

Switching to pellets, I eliminated: bugs in the house, splinters, smashed toes from dropping logs, kindling, creosote, wood splitter, etc.

I gained: a warm house in the morning or anytime I want (using programmable Thermostat)...priceless.

 

[save$]

I also have been a wood burner and now a pellet burner.
Wood, more dependable for larger heat output. Usually can be found and affordable if bought early in the year. Options available such as tree length, you work it up, to cut split and dry. Wood is more work and messy, but is dependable should you loose your power.
Pellets are clean and one heck of a lot less work, but will not give you the heat you get from wood. Esp. in homes that are not insulated well or have a large area. Pellets will not heat your home if you do not have electrical power or some sort of back up system. Also, the cost of pellets seems to be directly influenced by the cost of fossil fuels. Sellers will charge what the market will bear.
For me, going to pellets was an easy decision. I am older, only one to tend the stove, and not really interested in handling the fuel over and over.

 

[Ken45]

Another issue, I've heard a lot of complaints that pellet quality really dropped last year. I don't know myself, I'm still working on the 3 tons I bought two years ago (supplements the wood stove occasionally). But those (better) brands were not available last year.

 

[dac122]

There are many pluses and minuses to each of the options mentioned. I would correct you on your assumption that natural gas is less warm. On a per BTU basis Natural Gas is only bested by oil heat for fossil fuel sources.

To better gauge what would work for you, you need to ask yourself questions like how much work are you willing to put into your heat; do you have a place to store wood, pellets, coal, etc.; how long do you plan to be in this house; are you looking to increase the value of the property?

Also since you've not mentioned your KWH cost there is no way to know if what you are considering will pay back any time soon. What are your KWH, natural gas, wood and pellet prices locally? Be sure to include any taxes in your KWH and natural gas.

 

[MCPO]

Whatever you decide to spend for a space heater you are still stuck with electric heat and being it is the most costly to heat with , it greatly reduces the value of your house while breaking your heating budget. You need to change both factors in that situation.
Personally , I believe you and your family would be much happier spending for a modern energy efficient , properly zoned central heating system , either NG gas or oil (preferably NG if available).
When that is done you could then think about a pellet stove for supplemental heat for whatever reason. IMO spending $3K- $4800 for a pellet stove (space heater) is nothing more than a short term solution to a much bigger problem. That money could go a long way towards a more conventional heating system that will add value and comfort to your home and definitely save you a ton of dough especially when compared to electric heat.

I'm glad I found this site as I am about to lose my mind! We need an alternate source of heat in our house. Right now we have electric baseboard, YUCK! We are cold all winter and pay$300-$400 per month. Electric is about to go up 30% and we cannot decied what to put in our fireplace to make it efficient. Pellet inserts are nice, but pellets are actually rather expensive right now at $300 per ton and from what the dealers say we would go through 1 ton per month? (our house is 1800sqft) Propane is cheap now, but for how long? Coal is dirty and very hard to maintain and light at first? And natural gas is least expensive, but not as warm?

Anyway, as far as pellet inserts go (which is the way we are leaning right now) we are debating between a Napoleon NPI40 which is $3500 installed and the Lopi Yankee Bay at $4800 installed?

PLEASE, PLEASE help me I want to order whatever I;m going to order before the wait time for install is too long.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Add-on: Okay, maybe I should be thinking about wood inserts too?????? Are they very hard to light and keep attending to or nnot? What is your experience?

 

[Ken45]

Oil leaves one vulnerable to the wide price swings caused by global economic and government actions.

Natural gas is probably great....if it's available in one's area! But if the OP has electric heat, it's probably not available to him.

The good thing about wood heat is that it is not much affected by global and government actions Wood is pretty much just a local commodity. Many people can scrounge free wood or buy it on the local market.

 

[MCPO]

[quote author="Ken45" date="1254514999"]Oil leaves one vulnerable to the wide price swings caused by global economic and government actions.


Uh, you mean we ain`t vulnerable to the price swings of pellets? Around my neck of the woods (Pittsfield Ma ) $315.00 a ton delivered for pellets is an awful wide price swing from where it was 18 months -2 yrs ago.

 

[Ken45]

Oil leaves one vulnerable to the wide price swings caused by global economic and government actions.

Uh, you mean we ain`t vulnerable to the price swings of pellets? Around my neck of the woods (Pittsfield Ma ) $315.00 a ton delivered for pellets is an awful wide price swing from where it was 18 months -2 yrs ago.

No, I said WOOD heat, not pellets. Pellets are very much affected by global supply and demand, housing, etc.

 

[MCPO]

Oil leaves one vulnerable to the wide price swings caused by global economic and government actions.

Uh, you mean we ain`t vulnerable to the price swings of pellets? Around my neck of the woods (Pittsfield Ma ) $315.00 a ton delivered for pellets is an awful wide price swing from where it was 18 months -2 yrs ago.

No, I said WOOD heat, not pellets. Pellets are very much affected by global supply and demand, housing, etc.

Oops, sorry. You`re right. Wood is much less affected.
And wood might well be a better temporary alternative (to elec heat) vs pellets since a good wood stove (even brand new) can be cheaper than a comparable pellet stove and obvious wood fuel is cheaper than pellets.
I say temporary alternative because I still feel a new energy efficient central heating system is in order and should be considered a priority.

 

[Scoop]

I assume from the lack of mentioning wood that a wood stove is not an option?? If that is in fact true, you may want to slip over to the pellet head side of this site for some of your answers. Many wise folks over there that can answer your Q's. (or maybe one of our fine mods will gently slip this into the appropriate place).

Am I in the wrong place? this is the pellet side. lol

 

[Ken45]

Am I in the wrong place? this is the pellet side. lol

The thread started in the wood stove forum. I had not noticed but I assume the mods moved it to the pellet forum.

Ken

 

[Jags]

Am I in the wrong place? this is the pellet side. lol

The thread started in the wood stove forum. I had not noticed but I assume the mods moved it to the pellet forum.

Ken

Yup - you got it.

 

[odlaw]

One really needs to have the ability to use any of the fuels in todays changing market. Pellets were great 4 years ago then there was the so called shortage and last years price gouging. Many new pellet mills starting up and some are even using soybean as binders but it appears quality of pellets is suffering.
In my opinion pellet stoves are safe and home friendly but may not be economical anymore. Pellet prices have easily doubled in a couple of years. They are clean (no bugs, no bark, no odor, and low exhaust temps (safer than wood stoves.) It is a pain borrowing a trailer and going to the store to buy a ton of pellets. Unloading and restacking them in the garage is no picnic either but probably easier, cleaner and less space required than stacking cords of wood. Some private stove dealers will store your pellets for you at their store and you just take bags as needed.
We went to a pellet insert because the fireplace was unused for years and pellets were affordable. Some of my friends have the outdoor wood stoves and are happy with them but communites are slowly banning them around here because of the smoke and smell.
Reguardless of what you decide, make sure you buy a reliable product and from a reliable dealer or you will never be happy with your purchase and trust me there are some scammers out there.
Dvae

 

[drizler]

I assume you don't want coal even though it is cheap where you are. You should definitely go multifuel rather than pellet with the prices these days. After 3 years of pellets I am going back to corn this season just for that reason. Corn should be cheaper for you in PA than me here in Northern NY definitely and here locally it was under $200/ton last month and will be going down with harvest coming up. With either corn, pellets or wood it sure helps if you have your own pickup truck and or trailer. It helps save a pile of $$$ along the way. You need a place to store it too. Don't completely discount the electric heat for a couple rooms only as in bedrooms at night. The last couple years I have been setting the stove way back to around 55 - 60F at night and just using the electric space heaters in the bedrooms. That and a thermostat cut my pellet useage by 1/3 to 1/2 of the previous seasons.

 

[smstrb]

The best way to survive the boom and bust of home heating fuel prices is to have dual systems. For instance, one system to burn natural gas when the price is low as it is this season, and a pellet, multifuel, or wood stove to fall back on when the speculators once again drive the price of oil and natural gas through the roof.

 

[imacman]

The best way to survive the boom and bust of home heating fuel prices is to have dual systems.....

I agree. After much thought on the subject, I've decided to use whatever heat source I happen to have available to me (pellets or oil, in my case) that is cheaper if I had to purchase it today. If oil $$ goes lower, then I'll burn oil until it gets more expensive, and save the more expensive pellets.

Basically, burn which is cheaper to replace today.

And I have also decided to use what the owner of this site (Craig) thinks is a more "realistic" way to compare fuels. Example: If HHO is $2.20/gal, move decimal to right 2 places. If the pellets I bought cost less than $220/ton, then I burn pellets. Or vice-versa.

Right now, the HHO I bought in August for $2.19/ gal is cheaper than the AVERAGE price for all the pellets I have.....so the oil burner is on now.

 

[jwalker]

I have an electric heat pump and I looked at gettinga corn stove...cant really justify it yet until corn prices come down. my quotes were @ 200 a ton...I would also need o get a urncae or stove as well...which would take forever to pay for itself at those fuel prices.

 

[Ken45]

I have an electric heat pump and I looked at gettinga corn stove...cant really justify it yet until corn prices come down. my quotes were @ 200 a ton...I would also need o get a urncae or stove as well...which would take forever to pay for itself at those fuel prices.

Heat pumps are great for mild weather since their "efficiency: is well over 100% at milder temperatures. We run the heat pump on mild days, the wood stove on colder days. Even though the wood is "free" (except for my labor), a fire on mild (50-60 degree) days is bad for creosote.

The pellet stove is in reserve for winter days that we will be gone for more than 10 hours, or for very cold nights to supplement the wood stove. I didn't buy pellets last year and haven't this year, I still have about 20 bags left from two years ago.

Ken

 

[krooser]

I'm glad I found this site as I am about to lose my mind! We need an alternate source of heat in our house. Right now we have electric baseboard, YUCK! We are cold all winter and pay$300-$400 per month. Electric is about to go up 30% and we cannot decied what to put in our fireplace to make it efficient. Pellet inserts are nice, but pellets are actually rather expensive right now at $300 per ton and from what the dealers say we would go through 1 ton per month? (our house is 1800sqft) Propane is cheap now, but for how long? Coal is dirty and very hard to maintain and light at first? And natural gas is least expensive, but not as warm?

Anyway, as far as pellet inserts go (which is the way we are leaning right now) we are debating between a Napoleon NPI40 which is $3500 installed and the Lopi Yankee Bay at $4800 installed?

PLEASE, PLEASE help me I want to order whatever I;m going to order before the wait time for install is too long.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Add-on: Okay, maybe I should be thinking about wood inserts too?????? Are they very hard to light and keep attending to or nnot? What is your experience?

Not sure this poster ever came back to look at the discussion but....

I used to live in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and we had electric heat with a very efficient wood stove. The house was a passive solar design, facing (mostly) south.

I bought cordwood for $50-$75 per full cord or cut my own hardwood. I could heat my house with 1 1/4 cords of wood during an average winter.... never used more than 1 1/2 cords.

Today I'd replace the wood stove with a pellet stove knowing what I know now about wood vs. pellets (at age 60 with a bad back).

I'd check around about getting other prices.... $4800.00 for a pellet insert installed? I don't think so. I bought a used free standing stove for $1200.00 and installed it my self. Don't think that just because you have a fireplace that you can't use a free standing stove. It would be much cheaper going with a free standing pellet stove than the prices you've quoted.

And very few homes will require one ton of pellets per month. In your area maybe 1 1/2 bags per day in the coldest part of winter. Otherwise one bag per day... or less. Right now I'm using about 3/4 bag per day at $4.00 per bag. I heat my joint with 3 1/2 tons (175 bags) from October thru April.

My Jan/Feb NG bills were $300.00 plus per month prior to buying the pellet stove. Do the math.