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I can live a day without wikipedia, but not craigslist.

Post in 'The Inglenook' started by backpack09, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. backpack09

    backpack09 Minister of Fire

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    I agree that piracy is a bad thing, but I do not agree with the current form of the SOPA bill.

    I can live without wikipedia, as most of their info is suspect at best, but life without craigslist is a place I do not want to live... I need to buy, sell and dream about getting my junk on a daily basis.

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  2. eclecticcottage

    eclecticcottage Minister of Fire

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    I was just griping about this in the woodshed, since that's one place I go for scrounges and we just ahd a windstorm so I'm thinking there will be windfelled wood. someone posted that if you wait about 10 seconds a link to get in will appear on the bottom, and it does. Doesn't look like a whole lot of people saw that though here.

    I agree SOPA needs a rewrite. Honestly, they just need to put teeth on a law to help people (and I don't mean just giant corporations with flocks of lawyers inhouse) protect their IP rights, not ask the internet companies to police it instead. Well, maybe block known offenders-we actually set up our one website to block foreign IP addresses after finding one of our designs at Walmart, and seeing many folks from certain countries browsing our selections (we don't ship overseas, it's a PITA).
  3. branchburner

    branchburner Minister of Fire

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    I hope people are writing to reps, signing petitions, etc. when they visit these sites and see they are down. It is a good day for grassroots activism.
  4. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    The whole thing is a non-starter.
    Netflix and iTunes have shown that when people have access to the copyrighted materials at reasonable prices - when they want to see and hear it - they will pay. THe existing laws easily allow a massive corp. to enforce their copyrights where it really matters.

    I think the writers may have had good intentions, but this is a Big Government step which is not needed - IMHO.
  5. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    One could only imagine hearth.com getting asked to remove all copyrighted materials - that would mean all manuals, pics from brochures, etc.
  6. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    That actually is not always true. I just read about a software company that recently found out that half of the copies of it's new iPad app were pirated. These are friggin $2 apps! There is a bit of larceny in a lot of folks.
  7. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    I have to wonder how a vast number of folks are able to hack and install stuff on an ipad? In my experience, 95% or more of ipad users would not have any idea of installing something not from the app store.

    I'm all for shutting down the warez and pirate sites, but this should not entail broad powers.

    Of course, the unsaid part of the equation you mention (1/2 pirated) is that only a tiny portion of that other 1/2 may have bought the app......so it's not like 1/2 the revenue was lost. Some have actually experienced a net gain in that the network effect of the pirating increases the visibility and therefore sales.

    Heck, I've never pirated a $2 app! Actually, I probably have zero software on my machine which is not paid for......too much trouble! I do know some folks that pirate, but again these folks would definitely not be buyers if they didn't. They seem to do it because they have nothing better to do than beat the system...then never use the app.

    Still, after all is said and done, I don't want a bunch of new Federal employees running around at the bequest of their corporate lobbyist supporters. Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, Disney and the rest seem to have done OK and have the resources to pursue most of their own interests without overly broad laws.
  8. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Every time software piracy comes up I think of back when the Iron Curtain fell. It was discovered that most of the mainframe computers in the Curtain countries were running pirated copies of IBM's VM mainframe operating system. IBM turned it to advantage and started saying "When You Care Enough To Steal The Very Best".
  9. eclecticcottage

    eclecticcottage Minister of Fire

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    But what if the person that rips them off then resells it? It's not just the people that might copy a movie from a friend (or download a song illegally) that are the problem-it is those that copy something that represents someone else's hard work, then redistribute it, possibly even cheaper.

    I would really like to see a way for smaller companies to protect their IP rights without needing to spend $$$ on TM's and such-not to mention that some things CANT be tm'd or copyrighted and can easily be ripped off. We had this happen to us, by a company we believe is in China, and the end product ended up in Walmart. We are a two person biz, we can't fight wally world or some rip off artist in China. But, it's like the law they keep revisiting that would require online sellers to collect sales tax for every county/state/whatever that they ship to. It's stupid (well, really it's another word I won't post) to expect everyone to police everyone else and would put places under. It's the few rotten apples that spoil it for everyone, and for some reason, no one wants to deal with those apples...
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    If these were small numbers, I couldn't agree more. But in total, just for one major company, software piracy often results in billions of lost revenue globally. The downside of this can be American jobs that are lost. You have to get down to country #72 before there is less than a 50% piracy rate.
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate. Piracy is very costly.

    http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/625...jobs-pc-stimulus-intellectual-property-ip.htm

    PS: I agree that draconian laws are not the solution either. Not a fan at all of SOPA and PIPA. But I think that is more the penning of the movie, cable, tv industries.
  11. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    Sopa and Pipa are big government bills and need to go I will not give up my freedom that I fought hard for period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did not fight for socialism or communism and I will never do that I defended freedom and always will I will be damned if I let my family or anyone else give up there freedom slowly to big government cronies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Proud USMC VET
    Pete
  12. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    I apologize for the harshness but this is getting ridicules nobody needs the government telling them how to live what to look at online, where to go to school, who to vote for, what kind of food to eat and on and on it goes.

    Proud USMC VET
    Pete
  13. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Let's call a spade a spade here.

    The real biggies, like MicroSoft, Apple, etc. in the SW industry.....and big media (Disney, all the networks, etc.) in the media end....are wanting government to do more for them.
    "The Business Software Alliance today commended House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) for introducing the “Stop Online Piracy Act†(H.R. 3261) to curb the growing rash of software piracy and other forms of intellectual property theft that are being perpetrated by illicit websites."

    The little guys, who can't afford the lawyers nor any other part of it, still end up with the shaft.

    Waste, theft and piracy are problems which will never be solved. Never. I am all in favor of these companies fighting their own battles and winning....but wish the Fed. Gov. to play a minor supporting role as opposed to being the "enforcer".

    Pete, you can make a case for government to make sure AMERICANS eat pure food and breathe clean air.....and do many other things. Heck, that won't stop you or anyone else from pouring drain cleaner on their frosted flakes if they do desire.....if that is "freedom". But this is a different subject - this is really an international policing, which also gives the government direct power to shut down access. As we said above, there are already laws and regulations against piracy.

    I guess it's the difference between government suggesting that you don't eat too much salt....and them sending an agent to measure what you sprinkle on at the table. SOPA is more like the later.

    In the bigger picture, I think some in government are scared of the internet and the decentralization of power it represents. It takes power from the state - if left unregulated. That's why China and some others censor it so badly - they KNOW what would happen if it ran free there!

    We should err on the side of caution. In any case, I don't think there are evil forces behind this and it's nice that more people are becoming educated and informed on the subject - that's a good thing.
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    SOPA and PIPA died a death of a million bytes today. Kudos for democracy. And happily, so did the Keystone pipeline. Now can we get some real work done instead of all these distractions?
  15. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah, wait a day. They'll be more distractions. They don't end....
    :coolsmile:
  16. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    When a bill takes away privacy from an american its taking freedom that was my point. Just for the record online piracy is wrong in my book but then so is privacy piracy!

    Pete, you can make a case for government to make sure AMERICANS eat pure food and breathe clean air…..and do many other things. Heck, that won’t stop you or anyone else from pouring drain cleaner on their frosted flakes if they do desire…..if that is “freedomâ€. :lol: Drain cleaner is funny by the way Craig

    Im done
    Pete

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