I had installed last May 2008, a 316T flex, now being told I was sold a junk liner and probably $800

[woodsie8]

I spent months on end, doing my homework. Didn't want a flex liner, wanted a high quality heavy duty liner, wanted a block off plate, wanted insulated. Had nothing but problems trying to get someone to do it, the way I wanted. Finally had a guy that did chimney work for 30 years, do the job. He told me that the HomeSaver 316T high quality, strong enough he could stand on it and not to worry about the flex building up more creosote cuz it was smoother inside than most flex's. He did insulate it with a blanket liner. Did not do the block off plate. I paid extra for a vacu stack cap, due to high winds in our area. The install was $2300.00
So today, I had a local chimney sweep come up to sweep and he practically had a fit. Really nice guy but he was pretty disgustd the the materials. He told me that he could not get the vacu stack off the liner cuz the guy glued it on, or caulked it on. He said the liner was so thin, that he was worried he would tear the liner, getting the cap off. He said he will come up next week, when he can put a plate up there that he can actually sit and be more stable, and use a razor blade and screw driver to try to scrape the stuff off without tearing the liner. He has a cap that is made for the thin liners and said he would just give it to me. He also said, never never never let anyone use a steel brush on that liner or it will shread. He said it basically is one step above junk. He said that the vacu stacks hardly let the chimney breath and usually get totally plugged up.

 

[burntime]

Umm, does not sound good. Call the original guy back to clean it. When he damages it have him put it in right... I think it sounds like a reason to drink... I hope it turns out alright. I had an issue with my install. You can search if you like. Bottom line is the bad guys disappear and usually leave you holding the bag...

 

[Jags]

I think it sounds like a reason to drink...

I second that...hell, I'll have one for ya.

That sucks.

 

[johnn]

Im still doing the research thing,,,thanks for the learning curve, but sorry for your position! Are you sure he put in HomeSaver 316T, or some junk he had in a pile? I dont want to rule them out if their is any doubt! Sorry again;
John

 

[mnowaczyk]

I've also been researching for a new chimney liner. Apparently Ventinox is the only welded seem flex liner. Is taht true? I was told that materials are going to be $2800 for my 45' job, but I think I'm going to try to order them myself after (a) reading this post, and (b) seeing that I might be able to get is much closer to $1000 myself.

 

[BrotherBart]

Couple of items. Homesaver is one of the top liners around and the only one that our local sweeps will install. All flex liners are thin but darned tough. Number two, many sweeps have used steel brushes on flex liners for years with no problems. I have used one on my liners until I got around to buying poly brushes.

Number three, peeing all over other peoples installs seems to be a hallowed tradition with some sweeps.

 

[begreen]

About the only thing that sounds like it may be a problem is the silicone goop on the cap joint. I agree it's a mistake and it will be a PITA to remove. Hard to understand what the installer was thinking there. I'd be cursing at him too. It will probably take a thin, sharp, knife blade working around the circumference of the flex to liberate it. But don't worry about the flex. That part should be fine if it was installed right.

 

[woodsie8]

BeGreen, how would the chimney sweep guy put the Vacu Stack back on, this liner? He said you can't screw into the liner cuz it is too thin. How do people attach these caps? I'd like to keep the stack if I can, instead of switching to the cheap one he offered for free, just so he can sweep every year, without this mess again.

 

[webbie]

Homesaver 316 should be just fine........
a very well tested product.

Of course, I have a personal preference for rigid liner when possible, but this is rarely used in the field these days so I am just old fashioned.

Ventinox is some good stuff....but so is Homesaver. Other brands can be decent, but honestly some are a bit thin for my liking. In most cases they should last a decade or more anyway, and the good stuff - well cared for - should see two decades.

 

[begreen]

BeGreen, how would the chimney sweep guy put the Vacu Stack back on, this liner? He said you can't screw into the liner cuz it is too thin. How do people attach these caps? I'd like to keep the stack if I can, instead of switching to the cheap one he offered for free, just so he can sweep every year, without this mess again.

Could a short length of rigid liner be attached at the top of the flex?

 

[grommal]

About the only thing that sounds like it may be a problem is the silicone goop on the cap joint. I agree it's a mistake and it will be a PITA to remove. Hard to understand what the installer was thinking there. I'd be cursing at him too. It will probably take a thin, sharp, knife blade working around the circumference of the flex to liberate it. But don't worry about the flex. That part should be fine if it was installed right.

Caulking it on is what the VacuStack manufacturer recommends. There are no screws or clamps built into it. I think it's silly, too, but that's what their literature says. I'm thinking about getting one, but I'll mount it a different way so I don't have to scrape the caulk every year.

 

[webbie]

nothing really wrong with a little caulk that can be easily removed. Just don't use too much!

A vacu-stak will stay in largely based on it's own weight.

 

[iceman]

ITS NOT AS BAD as you think ... dont panic homesaver is a good brand your liner does not need to be replaced .... but if i was you ... get up there and see it for yourself

 

[burntime]

Sounds like it is turning out ok...but I am still drinking :cheese:

 

[jtp10181]

Most of the standard caps I have seen you secure the bottom and when you want to clean it there are a few screws that let you tap the top off it, so you don't have to remove the base of the cap from the flue. Also I have never seen a stainless liner that you could not put screws into... We use duraflex liner and from what I hear on here its not even as good as the homesaver stuff. We run screws into it all the time with no problems.

I can tell you I encounter a lot of sweeps that like to complain about installs and have no idea what they are talking about. I had one sweep telling a customer their prefab wood unit had some stranger flex on it he had never seen before and they should stop using it. I had to go out and check it and just as I was expecting.... oh no... a rolled 30 deg rigid elbow right on top of the unit. Seriously that must have been that sweeps very first job by himself or something. Has he never seen a prefab air cooled chimney in his life?

 

[BrotherBart]

We use duraflex liner and from what I hear on here its not even as good as the homesaver stuff. We run screws into it all the time with no problems.

I have seen Homesaver liners. And I installed Duraflex in both of my flues. Not a dimes worth of difference in them. Homesaver's big brag is being able to stand on it. I stood on Duraflex in the front yard. I didn't ever think somebody would be standing on it inside the chimney. Sorry Sooty Bob (look him up with Google).

Screws keep the cap from flying off. Doesn't take much to keep a cap from flying off. Just a couple of screws. One for that matter.

Your liner is fine guy. Your sweep is a whole nuther question. Find another one.

 

[iceman]

We use duraflex liner and from what I hear on here its not even as good as the homesaver stuff. We run screws into it all the time with no problems.

I have seen Homesaver liners. And I installed Duraflex in both of my flues. Not a dimes worth of difference in them. Homesaver's big brag is being able to stand on it. I stood on Duraflex in the front yard. I didn't ever think somebody would be standing on it inside the chimney. Sorry Sooty Bob (look him up with Google).

Screws keep the cap from flying off. Doesn't take much to keep a cap from flying off. Just a couple of screws. One for that matter.

Your liner is fine guy. Your sweep is a whole nuther question. Find another one.

X2
AMEN

 

[theheatelement]

We use duraflex liner and from what I hear on here its not even as good as the homesaver stuff. We run screws into it all the time with no problems.

I have seen Homesaver liners. And I installed Duraflex in both of my flues. Not a dimes worth of difference in them. Homesaver's big brag is being able to stand on it. I stood on Duraflex in the front yard. I didn't ever think somebody would be standing on it inside the chimney. Sorry Sooty Bob (look him up with Google).

Screws keep the cap from flying off. Doesn't take much to keep a cap from flying off. Just a couple of screws. One for that matter.

Your liner is fine guy. Your sweep is a whole nuther question. Find another one.

X2
AMEN

This is correct, I am a manufacture of flex and we all use the same material and for the most part we all use the same machines. Duravent now owns ventinox and has since last june. Their are very few differences with flex liners, one is the way it is either crimped or welded both can have flawless pipes but both can also be made incorrectly. We just purchased a new machine that has a quad lock system and that will separate our flex from our competitors but in turn all they have to do is go out and buy a newer machine and they would get that same ability.

Best regards,

 

[Wet1]

This is correct, I am a manufacture of flex and we all use the same material and for the most part we all use the same machines. Duravent now owns ventinox and has since last june. Their are very few differences with flex liners, one is the way it is either crimped or welded both can have flawless pipes but both can also be made incorrectly. We just purchased a new machine that has a quad lock system and that will separate our flex from our competitors but in turn all they have to do is go out and buy a newer machine and they would get that same ability.

Best regards,

How soon will this new quad locking system appear in your products? Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you please tell me what the pros and cons are of the two different thicknesses in your liners? The difference seems minimal, but since it's offered, I assume there's a reason for it...

Thanks!

 

[theheatelement]

This is correct, I am a manufacture of flex and we all use the same material and for the most part we all use the same machines. Duravent now owns ventinox and has since last june. Their are very few differences with flex liners, one is the way it is either crimped or welded both can have flawless pipes but both can also be made incorrectly. We just purchased a new machine that has a quad lock system and that will separate our flex from our competitors but in turn all they have to do is go out and buy a newer machine and they would get that same ability.

Best regards,

How soon will this new quad locking system appear in your products? Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you please tell me what the pros and cons are of the two different thicknesses in your liners? The difference seems minimal, but since it's offered, I assume there's a reason for it...

Thanks!

Our quad lock is now available, although in our busy season some products may be shipped with the normal lock if we cannot keep up with demand. We only sell the .005 in terms of difference.. it's so minimal. In regards to price .005 actually costs more then .006 and I think this is an issue with society. Most people think thicker is better.. it costs more to produce .005 because at the steel mills they have to roll it down from a thicker size to a smaller size which thus increases costs. We use .005 for the mere fact that our customers prefer it, it's more flexible and easier to get down a chimney, .005 and .006 are both UL tested products and if I were to offer .006 it would carry the same lifetime warranty that my .005 carries. Hope that helps.. if anyone has any kind of questions I would be happy to help answer them

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Yea, the HomeSaver 316T is high quality, even the lower end of the product line. In fact I was burned, ha, when my installer substituted a Druraflex instead of the contracted HomeSaver 316T. After some discussion in this forum Brother B, convinced me the Duraflex would be just fine. The good news is I got a couple of hundred $ off the contract price, my chimney took a 35' length of pipe, so only a few $$ per foot adds up.

I've run my Duraflex reasonably hard this winter, not 24/7 except for a week when my central heating system had a major failure. I plan to clean it my self, from the insert end, using a non-metallic brush..noting the burs that Lowes sells is metal.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Great info in this post. Thanks everyone. I'm new to wood stoves, and my "new" house is going to need a water heater, and why not just do the radiator water heater at the same time. Right? So that's two liners I'll surely be shopping. I'm in this house for the long haul. My chimney has twists. I got a price from my sweep to install a wood stove liner for only $650 of labor (plus lift cost and materials, recommended $2800 in materials including Ventinox for its welded seems). I'm very happy with this labor cost, but want to make sure I'm doing the right thing for the material liner(s). It seems there are four brands to compare and contrast here:

- Ventinox / Duravent
- Duraflex
- MagnaFlex
- Homesaver
It looks like with any of these fabricators, I'm looking at the top of the line product, 316 TI Alloy, right? Maybe I could use something lesser for my heater if I switch to gas (from oil).

Anybody got recommendations for the best looking and easiest to remove chimney cap?

Anybody got any opinions about my chimney sweep who sweeps from the inside instead of climbing to the top of my 45 foot chimney? Maybe he knows that it's not worth the trouble of taking off that cap on the ~12 inch round clay liner?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Sweeping from the bottom should be fine in most cases, but don't forget cleaning the cap, spark arrester/screen. The brush coming up from the bottom will not do that job. If the screen is nothing more than 1/4", or larger, hardware cloth, it may be ok.

 

[jtp10181]

Sweeping from the bottom should be fine in most cases, but don't forget cleaning the cap, spark arrester/screen. The brush coming up from the bottom will not do that job. If the screen is nothing more than 1/4", or larger, hardware cloth, it may be ok.

I can attest to that. The caps we use the screen is 7" or more in diameter. A 6" brush just makes a channel in the cap leaving 1/2" ring of creosote stuck to the cap. Lets see if these pics work, its what we cleaned out of a cap from a person cleaning their own chimney from the bottom. Remember all this came out of JUST the cap.

They were having a slight problem with smoking coming back and puking out of all the pipe joints inside the house.

 

[BrotherBart]

If I could not get to the top of these chimneys for cleaning, these stoves would never be lit up again. When the old knees keep me from going up there I will either hire the job out or find some other heat source. I am highly allergic to carbon monoxide. I understand that it is a common allergy. :coolsmirk: