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I have my pellet stove now need something to heat the water! Hot water is killing me here!

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Steveo, Jul 23, 2008.

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  1. Turbozcs2003

    Turbozcs2003 New Member

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    southernMaine

    I was told not to do what you are doing since it isnt very good for the internals in the water jacket and the gaskets.

    I too went with an indirect Crown Megastor. My tankless coil was not delivering enough hot water due to hard town water. I didnt abandon the tankless, simply used the output to supply the crown and had a seperate zone with seperate pump to heat the DHW.
    I turned down the aquastat in the tankless by 40 degrees and lowered the stat on the Crown. I would guess the boiler would fire once a day or so to heat the water in the Crown and that is about it. The crown is stainless and has lifetime warranty so I wont have to worry about it. Operating the boiler to heat the DHW keeps the internal temps hi enough inside the furnace where I dont get any leaks and dont have to worry about condensation inside the boiler. I also insulates all my pipes. I am guessing I cut the standby use by half with most going to make the DHW.

    If I were to do it over, I would have bought a cold start type boiler where it isnt bothered by this and wouldnt have to be operated in the off season.

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  2. kristin2000

    kristin2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
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    14
    Loc:
    maine
    I installed an energy efficient electric HWH from Lowes in MAy and love it- it runs me an extra $28-30 month on my electrictric bill with 4 shower/ day and doing dishes etc... It was a great investment alternative to oil
  3. rich81

    rich81 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
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    200
    i too have been thinking the same thing. its good to see some people from maine talking about the costs so i have something to compare too!
  4. slls

    slls Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    1,467
    Loc:
    central maine Lat 45
    My oil dealer told me a lot of his boiler owners are putting in electric hot water for summer, and turning it off when the boiler is started.
  5. buckscrape

    buckscrape Member

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    Townsend (North Central MA)
  6. jrousell

    jrousell New Member

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    Feb 26, 2008
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    Loc:
    Adirondack Mtns. NY
    Electricity rates vary by region. I pay considerably more per KWH here in NY state.

    We use a tankless propane fired on-demand unit.

    Saves us money over electric, and regular tank-base propane. It is direct vent. and whats more it is endless amount of hot water....

    they also last almost twice as long as tank water heaters...
  7. mkmh

    mkmh New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Messages:
    407
    Loc:
    Southern, Maine
    I looked in to those and some even larger units on E-bay. I LOVE the idea, but if you google some of the models and manufacturers you will find dozens and dozens of unsatisfied customers. Some of them were victims of improper installations but most of the ones I came across experienced unit failure in the first 18 months. I really wanted to make myself believe that these were the answer for me, but by the time I got done reading th reviews it was clear tehre was a quality issue.

    I think i'm going to look into a Triangle Tube Smart 30 for my family. From what I understand, they are toward the top of teh ouine for tank heater with high efficiency, high FHR and very low standby losses. The trade-off is taht they are more than twice the price of a similarly sized tank style water heater.
  8. buckscrape

    buckscrape Member

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    Loc:
    Townsend (North Central MA)
    Please remove copied twice sorry
  9. Adios Pantalones

    Adios Pantalones Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    6,394
    Loc:
    S.NH- Mass's smoking section
    Some boilers will leak if they cool off- be warned. I have a 30 yr old Weil McClain boiler that's in decent shape, but leaks if it becomes disabled.
  10. MainePellethead

    MainePellethead Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
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    873
    Loc:
    Southern Maine
    I do that same thing. My lady turns on the boiler at the emergency switch in the morning before work, she turns it off after her shower....I work third shift so I come home and take a shower....and theres plent for rest of the day. My dishwasher has a built in HW heater so it doenst need the furnace HW. I have gone through 100 gallons since last december but i was only doing the "shut off" method on the boiler since about 2 months ago. I have an 8 year old boiler with a separate water tank off of the boiler.
  11. richg

    richg Minister of Fire

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    Nov 20, 2005
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    Bosch AE125 tankless electric. I have one and it is fantastic.
  12. Kenpobldr

    Kenpobldr Member

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    Loc:
    South Eastern Ma.
    What model did you buy?
  13. orangecrushcj7

    orangecrushcj7 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
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    352
    Loc:
    Barre MA
    Yeah, I have an ancient Burnham Fiesta that works like a champ - it is probably from the 60's. It DOES leak when I turn it off. However, it has always (in years past) sealed itself up when reheated. It probably won't now that I've said that....
  14. drizler

    drizler Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    948
    Loc:
    Chazy, NY 12921
    I have been shutting off my peerless boiler with separate tank storage for over 10 tears in the summer. It does leak if off for any great length of time but not much and it always seals up again when hot. I am sure it will not last the usual 40 years due to rust but guess what who cares. Its on its way out and really only a backup for my pellet stove anyways. This winter it is getting drained cleand and left sitting. I do pretty well shutting mine off. I last put right around 50 gallons into the tank when it went m/t in early April. I am still waiting for it to get m/t again and of course its due any day. Still thats not bad at all for 3 of us but we don't use a lot of hot water, wash clothes cold ect. After much thinking my next project will be one of those Airsted Bosch small 4 gallon tank heaters from Home Deppt. Simple 115 electric and no special wiring boxes or circuits to deal with. $170 and I can get it free from the wifes business American Express miles . If one doesn't work then they easily install inline and I am sure that would. I liked the propane rigs but they nare a lot of hassle to set up and cut holes in the roof ect. This guy will go right in the upstaris closet where it belongs, wrapped in a large wad of insulation. I looked at all the nice ones but with the extremely high cost and the fact that none of them are really that long term reliable it just makes more sense to go with the cheapie that I can simply chage out for another $170.
  15. stovehugger

    stovehugger New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
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    36
    Loc:
    Sebago Lake Maine
    I have the Bosch aquastar tankless propane model and it has worked very well for us for 8 years so far. My wifes grandfather just recently bought one as well with the direct spark ignition and is very happy with it too. I have a wife and 2 kids and we use LP for hot water and to cook on and we go through 100 pound tanks 1 every 45-60 days . approx $350-$400 per year.
  16. hoverfly

    hoverfly Minister of Fire

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    551
    Loc:
    Southern NH
    Using a shower head that uses less water works well.
  17. jimcooncat

    jimcooncat New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    28
    Loc:
    Central Maine
    I had a very bad time with the Rinnai tankless propane heater. After taking the tenth cold shower, the lady said, "Rip it out!". Customer reviews I read (after we started having problems) were that half were extremely happy with it, the other half were very disappointed. Ended up that my plumber went to bat for me and we got a refund on the unit. I was out a good chunk of installation cash though.

    Because our well likes to give us sediment (we do have a filter, but after the water heats we get scale), I bought the cheapest electric heater Home Depot had. I also got the "Little Gray Box" timer. Well, the heater's going good after a year, though the timer crapped out. I guess I'll get a new, better quality timer sometime.

    Once I consolidate my plumbing, if I have to replace again I'll probably get an on-demand electric heater. These are very small boxes that can fit under a sink, as long as you have a good way to safely wire 220 v. to it. They're very good choices if you want hot water at a remote location, or if all your hot water demand is close together.
  18. stovehugger

    stovehugger New Member

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    36
    Loc:
    Sebago Lake Maine
    My experience with the tankless is quite good. The one that I ordered for my wifes grandfather was from www.cpotanklesswaterheater.com. From reading the replies I believe that having a tempering tank before the heater might be a good idea but I wouldnt go with a low flow showerhead because it might cause problems with flow through the heater because the moving water runs the on -off switch.
  19. brewerpete

    brewerpete New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    43
    Loc:
    Eastern Mass
    mainepellethead...
    I do the emergency switch trick too... but I've been told to be careful you don't turn the switch off when it's running... the burners don't like that over time...so wait for the cycle to finish then hit the switch
  20. DaveM195352

    DaveM195352 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2008
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    Loc:
    Belgrade, Maine
    I agree - should use the emergency switch only after the boiler has turned itself off. I believe when the temp sensor says - enough heat, turn furnace off - it doesn't just cut the power to the whole unit, it tells the furnace to stop burning, BUT allows it to finish it's cycle, which includes the blowers and purging thing. If you use the emergency switch and just cut the power to the whole thing mid cycle, your leaving unburnt oil and stuff in the burner which the burner will have to deal with next time it's turned on.

    I have come to use the emergency switch and am saving about 30-40% on my summer month oil useage for DHW - but I am careful to be sure to turn it off between cycles.
  21. thoude3

    thoude3 New Member

    Joined:
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    13
    Loc:
    Maine
    You get get what is called an "outside reset". I do believe Intelacon makes a good model. It learns how you use your boiler and will run the boiler at a lower temp in the off season (spring thru fall). They garantee a 10% savings depending on how much you use your boiler. It actually keeps track of how much oil you use. The device costs about 250 and depending on your boiler guy total cost installed is 325-500. Hope it helps :cheese:
  22. DaveM195352

    DaveM195352 New Member

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    Loc:
    Belgrade, Maine
    can you check speeling on the intelacon.... I can't seem to google it. or provide a link? Thanks
  23. mkmh

    mkmh New Member

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    407
    Loc:
    Southern, Maine
    I just pulled the trigger on and electric tanless from e-bay (this model)
    http://www.designerhardware.com/Titan_Tankless_Water_Heater_p/ttn-n120.htm

    I managed to get it for 190 including free shipping.
    Reviews on the web are mixed, so I am tempering my expectations. I had a good chat with the seller (Chuck) before buying, and after my conversation with him I felt like it was worth a try at that price point. I may also add a 2nd one of these units in parallel which he recommended for Mainers (or going up to a bigger unit). He told me the biggest problem with electric on demand heaters is that when you are dealing with the kind of watts necessary to heat water fast, things can go wrong. The most common point of failure on these units is the control board. He didn't give me stats, but he said the most common problem is a blown 2 cent resistor, and when that happens the units can be returned for repair.
    The problem of course is that you may be out of hot water for x days which isn't really acceptable. The 2nd unit in parallel would solve that to an extent since it is unlikely that two would fail at the same time.
    Once I have some results I will open a separate thread (maybe in the green room) with my review of this unit.
  24. wberryment

    wberryment New Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Gray Maine
    I got caught up in the Harman fiasco. I am now awaiting my Quadrafire. In the mean time I have also installed a Rinnai propane heater. I did the install except the gas line install. The propane company came out and did that and went over all the work that I had done. They then fired it up and ever since that day about a month ago my oil furnace has been off. I did plumb it such that if something happened to the Rinnai I could just turn some valves and continue to heat off of my oil furnace. These tankless propane hot water heaters are they way to go in my opinion. They come on when you draw hot water and they shut off when your done calling for it. There isn't a cycling on and off to maintain the hot water temperature like with a oil boiler.

    So once I get my pellet stove I'll truly be off of the oil except for my car. Good luck with your decision.

    wayne
  25. retiredff

    retiredff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Loc:
    60 miles SE of Indy
    Has anyone tried one of these electric water heaters:

    http://www.marathonheaters.com/

    When my current 14 yr. old snuffy smith dies I might buy the Marathon.
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