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I need advise on my recent Mt. Vernon AE insert installation.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Rowdysdad, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    102
    Loc:
    The beautiful Ozarks. SW Missouri
    Hello,

    I’m new to this forum. Thought I would tap some of the expertise and experience this forum offers. I need suggestions on what changes should be made in order to obtain optimal performance from my newly purchased insert. All suggestions are appreciated.

    This is the best local deal I could find: Quadrafire Mt. Vernon AE insert. $3588.00
    Quad online manufacturer rebate - 300.00
    1 ton free pellets credit - 215.00
    Delivery, install and setup ( with existing 3” vent ) + 150.00
    Sales tax + 268.00
    Fed energy rebate to claim on 2013 taxes - 300.00
    ---------------------
    Total for everything $3191.00


    Just replaced our 12 year old Country Flame “Little Rascal” insert with a new Mt. Vernon AE insert. Our house is 1362 sq ft main level with a 1362 sq ft walk out basement. We have a propane furnace with winter thermostat setting of 68 degrees. Our new insert will be used as the main level heat source. It is installed in our family room that has a 13 ft ceiling with 5 ft diameter fan. Stove date of manufacture was 3/12. Installers said that OAK was not needed. The installers used a 12 inch piece of Duravent and an adapter on the insert which connects to the existing 3 inch flex and 3 inch x 15ft of double wall pipe. All of this is installed inside a masonry flue located in the center of the house. The existing flex goes thru the fireplace damper opening that has no block off plate or insulation. The top of the flue has a flat aluminum block off plate with a storm collar on top of it. The vent pipe and rain cap terminate about 14 inches above the block off plate. Total flue length from top of insert to rain cap is 18 feet.

    Initial installer settings Heat out = 4, Flame height = 4, Temp diff = 2, Convect speed = Normal, Elevation (alt 1292)= Normal, Fuel type = HW pellets. Note: with these settings the air out is 200-210 degree range.

    EDIT 3/21/13 settings changed ; Heat out from 4 to 3, Flame height from +4 to - 5 , Fuel type from HW pellets to corn ( for longer duration between auto clean ).

    The installers suggested that I try using the 3 inch since its already there to see if it works ok. Will the existing 3 inch vent handle it or should I install a 4 inch?

    What symptoms/conditions indicate that I need to increase to the 4 inch vent ?

    If I go to the 4 inch should I use flex or double wall? Which brand /type suggested and where online is the most reasonable place to purchase it.

    I am using Somerset premium hard wood pellets that cost me $172 a ton.

    Have there been any software or part updates since this insert was manufactured in March 2012?

    Should I unplug the unit during the cooling season or should I leave it powered up?

    Any other hints for the operation, maintenance or cleaning on the Mt. Vernon AE insert?


    Again, thanks for all help, comments and advise.



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  2. tsmith

    tsmith Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    761
    Loc:
    Kutztown, PA
    3" vent pipe should be fine. I have never burned Somerset's, but from what I hear, they are a premium hardwood pellet. When I burn a good quality hardwood, I need to set my flame height at -4 to -5. I would think you are wasting pellets at a +4 flame height. With dense pellets you want less fuel and more air. Set your stove to manual high setting and let your flame react for awhile, then adjust your flame height setting down to a lower number and again let it settle for awhile. You want the flame to hit the top of the diamond on the baffle. I am willing to bet you can at least set it to a -4. When done set your heat output to medium high again and your flame should automatically adjust to proper height. Even with mine on -5 and set on low, my flame is high with Turman hardwood's.
  3. dhall28

    dhall28 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    165
    Loc:
    Central Ohio
    if you need four inch you wont be getting enough air, not enough air is not only caused by too small of a pellet pipe but symptoms are black soot on the glass (tan/brown is normal and expected) large lazy dark orange flame (healthy flame is white/yellowish orange and very active like a blow torch kinda) and in most severe case you could have vacuum switch errors.

    inside an existing chimney use flex liner, olympia chimney liner is a good quality name brand, lifetime warranty fully transferable to new owners...

    somersets are a good pellet and people have paid much more for far worse than what your buying those for

    update, ill try to do this from memory, select menu, then user options, then scroll all the way to the bottom and i think its something like "stove settings" possibly, if you selct it a bunch of weird letters and numbers should come up, look at the upper right hand side and you should see something like ufti and if you have hardwood selected 005 should be next to it, so with ufti 005 below that is rev then your rev number if it is lower than 040 with hardwoods selected you dont have the newest fuel table program on your unit, which your dealer can get you the newest fuel tables if they have the program and the adapter and the newest fuel tables off quads site and they actually know how to use the everything together which not all dealer do i believe....

    first off you should always have the unit on a power surge protector as the board and AC to DC converter are not warrantied to power surges and you dont want to have to buys those, $$$, and when not in use in the summer the safest thing to do is to unplug the stove.

    somersets from my experience are short 1/4" to 5/8" generally and will feed faster than a moderate length pellet (1/4" to 1") that +4 flame height/feed adj. seems a little high for the type of pellet your burning but if the unit starts well and runs well then you cant argue with the real world experience.
  4. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    102
    Loc:
    The beautiful Ozarks. SW Missouri
    Thanks for your comments so far.

    Hi tsmith: I will look into different values on the flame height setting. Thanks!

    dhall28: my properties screen looks like this.
    WC: 50h UFTI 005
    SC: 76h Rev: 030
    CB: 20h TC: 0
    CV: 20h

    Looks like I need to contact the dealer about updated fuel tables. I am using a surge protector. Thanks for your comments.
  5. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    I don't run an AE, but I have a Quad. They are built well and heat like the Sun.

    My only sound advise, is to buy as MUCH AS THE SOMERSETS AS YOU CAN!!!

    I don't know how often they are in your area, but they are a standard around me. But living out as far as you do? They may not make it to Missouri? I get them for $175-$215 around me. But in the New England area, they fetch a premium price of $225-$275. So Buy, buy, buy... ;) They are by far, the best pellet in my area.

    Also, as suggested, unplug during Summer and use a good surge protector during heating season. Also, add something like Damp Rid to the firebox, ash pan, and/or hopper to help eliminate moisture issues. Plug the exhaust vent and/or OAK to help stop the humidity from entering the unit. Stopping humidity will stop the rust, which will only make your stove last longer.

    Some leave the stove alone all summer, but rust will eventually will eat from the inside, out. Protect your investment and it will keep you warm and happy for many years to come.

    Welcome to the Forums. You have a beautiful stove and Hearth.... :) Enjoy...
  6. dhall28

    dhall28 Member

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    165
    Loc:
    Central Ohio
    yes properties, i thought i had the last name wrong. ufti indicates you do have it on hard woods and for the hardwood setting it has the 030 fuel table, the newest is the 040 but the only difference between the two is with 040 they reduced the ignitor on time slightly and reduced the number of retries after a initial failure to light, so if the dealer can not do it i wouldnt worry about it too much as quad ignitors are the cheapest oem ignitor i've ever seen and very easy to replace, except from the factory, whoever that person is that tightens the wing nut down with what must be vice grip fingers i'd like to meet them.
    that is a very good price, 600 off the stove, dealer splits half of the 300 coupon with quad so 150 there and 215 credit on pellets and an install thats much less than what normal for most dealers. the bad side is while the profit isn't totally gone for the dealer if you have warranty issues beyond a simple ignitor, something that takes time to troubleshoot and repair, the dealer, not quad, has to eat labor and the dealer in this instance may be reluctant to but each dealer is different and they may be happy to, although hopefully you dont have any issues to begin with for many years to come, it is a very nice unit.
  7. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    597
    Loc:
    SE CT
    Hi Rowdy, nice to meet ya welcome to the forum. Beautiful stove, you got a great deal too. I would prefer a 4 inch liner but a 3 inch will work fine too I believe, after using your stove, you'll know if its an issue. Good choice for stove too, I'm waiting for spring (and golf) to come to CT. Take care
  8. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    3,989
    Loc:
    Southcoast, MA
    150 delivery set up and install... That's hard to beat,
  9. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    102
    Loc:
    The beautiful Ozarks. SW Missouri

    Hi DexterDay.

    Thanks for the welcome and the compliment. We are happy with the way the installation turned out.

    I buy the Somersets at the local Lowe's store. The $172 a ton price I mentioned is with the 10% Veterans discount. I had been using about 1 1/2 tons a year with the old insert. I bought 2 tons last year and still have 21 bags left. I'll be stocking up again this coming fall.

    That's good advise about the moisture control during off season. Never even considered that before.
  10. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Loc:
    The beautiful Ozarks. SW Missouri
    Hi dhall28: I still plan with getting back with the dealer and will mention the fuel table update.

    I also heard that a newer ( lower wattage that will last longer) type ignitor is in the newer stoves. Any truth to that?

    The dealer and the installers are all a bunch of "hillbillies" like me, so we get along great. I didn't realize that the dealers had
    so little profit margin. Thanks for the explanation.



    Hi stovelark: Thanks for the welcome and the compliment.

    I'm also a wanna be golfer. Best game so far an 85. If I have a really good day and they have an exceptionally bad one I can get close to the worst players in the group. Normally though, I really make all the other guys in the group look really,
    really good. Haha.



    Hi smwilliamson: Thanks for the comment. From what I have been reading I got treated well. Normal install is around $250.
  11. dhall28

    dhall28 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    165
    Loc:
    Central Ohio
    profit margin is good on pellet stoves themselves but when you take that much off it starts to pinch if and when there is warranty, parts are covered but labor is a small flat rate from quad that only covers the very simplest of issues and doesn't cover any of the trip expenses as well. that why you may hear about someone buying a stove from one shop and then wanting warranty from another dealer, well that dealer didn't make any money on the sale so usually they will still charge the customer for labor and not parts.

    yes there is a lower wattage ignitor that has come out but from the factory all the stoves still come with the original higher wattage igniter. if you plan on ONLY burning pellets you can get the lower 300 (vs. 380) watt ignitor, should be part # SRV7000-647.
  12. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

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    Loc:
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    I only intend to burn pellets so I'll keep that info on file. Thanks!
  13. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

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    Loc:
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    Anyone else have any suggestions or experience with the OAK (outside air kit)?

    Anyone run the OAK and flue out the top of their masonry flue? Where did you get the chimney top termination for both pipes? If I do run an OAK I will have to go all the way up the chimney because of the way my fireplace is built.

    Flue size (3 or 4) and type (flex or double wall), and what needs to be done, if anything, with the unsealed uninsulated damper area?

    Thanks!
  14. tsmith

    tsmith Minister of Fire

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    I have installed an OAK on both my Quad and Harman stoves and it does make a difference. I am not sure why the dealers don't want to install them. Mine is a direct vent straight out the wall just like my vents.
  15. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

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    Hi tsmith: Thanks for the reply.

    I specifically asked the installers if the OAK was needed and they said it wasn't. I didn't ask for their reasoning but I should have.

    From what I have read so far I will be installing an OAK as soon as I can get more ideas / suggestions on how to do it correctly.
  16. tsmith

    tsmith Minister of Fire

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    Yea, for some reason it seems like they do not want to install them, maybe too much work for them. I strongly believe in them and so do many others here.
  17. tsmith

    tsmith Minister of Fire

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    They technically are not needed, but they do give you better performance i believe.
  18. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

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    I did a forum search on OAKS and am finding a bunch of good info. Lots of people are using them and most that aren't wish they were.

    Thanks again for your replies and comments.
  19. Lake Girl

    Lake Girl Minister of Fire

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    NW Ontario
    X2 on the OAK. I got the same answer from the stove dealer that its not needed. I installed one two weeks later and the only thing I regret is that I didn't get one of the plates that carries both to the outside. Rather use outside air than my nicely heated inside air. OAKs should be standard on install because new homes are pretty airtight and older homes have insulation and draft problems. JMO

    Sorry can't give you ideas on the insert venting, we have horizontal only but Welcome to the Forum:)
  20. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Loc:
    The beautiful Ozarks. SW Missouri
    Hi Lake Girl: Thanks for the welcome and the comments.

    I need all the help / information / install pics / ideas I can get. :cool:
  21. Kindle

    Kindle New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
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    Loc:
    Central Pennsylvania
    We had a Quadrafire MT Vernon installed in February. You are going to enjoy your stove. Our installer did not give us an option on the OAK. They said since we had a 6 year old house that is pretty tight, it needed an OAK. Glad it was installed.
  22. Lake Girl

    Lake Girl Minister of Fire

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    Finally an intelligent installer:cool: Welcome to the forum!
  23. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
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    Hi Kindle:

    We love our Mt. Vernon insert.

    Is the oak and the vent installed in a masonry flue ? What's the diameter of the oak tubing and the the vent pipe?

    What settings are you using on the programmable thermostat?

    Thanks for the reply to my post.
  24. Rowdysdad

    Rowdysdad Member

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    Amen to that.
  25. Kindle

    Kindle New Member

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    Thank you ! This dealer is known for their quality work and service. Paid a little extra, but it is worth it.

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