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I need immediate advice from members, firefighters, etc...

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by joefrompa, Jan 30, 2011.

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  1. midwestcoast

    midwestcoast Minister of Fire

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    That's to err on the safe side. The insert was never tested with insulation packed all over it so no-one can say whether the outer jacket could overheat....
    By attaching the insulation to the fireplace walls you leave an air gap to keep the jacket from getting too hot.
    I did this on my install with rockwool batts covered by sheet metal Tapcon'd into the mortar joints.
    A well sealed block-off plate is more important IMO as moving air carries heat quickly.
    Also if you do this don't insulate the surround panels as you want heat to conduct through them into the room. I mention that 'cause some inserts come with insulation for the surround.

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  2. ansehnlich1

    ansehnlich1 Minister of Fire

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    I agree, I'd be hesitant to stuff insulation in there right smack dab against the unit.
  3. joefrompa

    joefrompa New Member

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    Update: Broken elbow was replaced this morning by the installer (who, i feel at this point, I should have had more faith in from the beginning....but hindsight is 20/20).

    The story is this: his supplier (Olympia I believe) would always provide elbows in a welded straight, 15 degree, or 30 degree options and they'd fit the flex liner to the angle. For whatever reason, they (his supplier) started using another vendor who started to provide elbows which were 2 pieces crimped together rather than welded at the angle. The part numbers remained the same.

    The elbow in question that was installed on mine was a crimp fit and obviously popped apart post install. It was replaced with the same part except the angle is welded all the way around robotically - it was a very clean weld line.

    The chimney was swept from the bottom and was overall fairly clean - good amount of soot, but otherwise not bad at all. The thickest build-up was right around that opening.

    Before re-assembling the surround, i shoved rock-woold up all around the liner to create a "block-off" effect.

    At the installer's recommendation, I have e-mailed Lopi asking if it's ok to surround the rear of the stove with rock wool or whether the stove needs an air gap.

    I'll start a new thread with a report after I fire it up and additional pictures, and report on stove performance.

    Joe
  4. labrador

    labrador Member

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    Those are some of the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning, if your detector is working properly it should have gone off. We just had a call lilke this where the CO detector went off. Your local fire company may have a portable detector to give you a more accurate reading. 35 ppm and above is dangerous and life threatening. This is from and EMT standpoint. Warren
  5. GunSeth

    GunSeth Member

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    Glad things seemed to have worked out Joe.
  6. joefrompa

    joefrompa New Member

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    Holy crap - I did my first fire last night since the elbow was fixed and some block-off was given with insulation around the liner/closing the chimney off above the stove.

    Crappy little fire - box was never more than 1/3rd full and using wood with alot of surface moisture. Surface temps never went above 350.

    At the end of the night, with a weak fire, I FULLY CLOSED MY AIR and was getting light secondaries and the fire looked healthy.

    Before, even with a fire at 500-600 degrees and good quality wood in there, closing my air all the way would immediately shut the fire down to smoldering.

    I'll need to re-learn the stove now and I'll post a fuller update in a week or two.
  7. shawneyboy

    shawneyboy New Member

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    Joe great to hear. I am glad the installer took care of the situation. You may want to ask him if he reccomends a stove shop, other than the one you bought the insert from, for you "4k" purchase. Enjoy the "new" old insert. Let the learning begin.
  8. tickbitty

    tickbitty Minister of Fire

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    Ah, right. I was just thinking myself for a minute "wait, isn't this just basically a slammer install then?" but it's NOT, for the reasons you mentioned. It would not be freely drafting up the chimney if it got out of that pipe, it would be reaching a closed cap. Not good!
  9. tickbitty

    tickbitty Minister of Fire

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    Glad you got this resolved. Hope it meets your expectations this time!
  10. bajaspecial

    bajaspecial New Member

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    joe, i hope you found our workmanship original and the needed repair to be up to snuff.
    i believe with some good seasoned wood you will have better results and all will be good. i hope we assured you and your wife of the quality of our/your install.

    i can only say im sorry for your inconveniance and wish you had called us the day you began your thread so we could of addressed this matter at that time.



    BEGREEN, please go back and look at the pictures joe had posted and you will see that the clamp was not just on the liner it was laced thought the elbow and clamped to the liner as it should have been.

    as far as the elbow having undue pressure on it after the broken elbow was removed the liner sat in the same possition as it did when the elbow was on it. after the new style elbow was installed and attached to the stove the liner moved freely in the damper case not binding on anything in that area. so your "SLOPPY WORKMANSHIP" may have been a bit prematurly evaluated.

    this was a manufacture defect from an outside vendor to my supplier in the part used and nothing more. i have been assured from my supplier that these parts wont be available from them again and have checked and pulled any left in there inventory.in being asked to sit in on some of there new product reviews and seeing how they respond to comments i have no reason to believe anything else. they are top notch from top to bottom. to quote some others here "stuff happens" the sign of your contractor is how they deal with problems when they come up. approx 48 hours from our first hearing of this issue to repaired explained and up and running isnt too bad

    this post could go on for days responding to everyone sitting in front of a keyboard with there "proffesional" 2 cents but what would that get done.

    joe i hope you have nothing but good experiances with your stove and hope you and your wife are assured that we care about our /my customers and are just a phone call away. thank you for allowing us back in your home to repair our install.
  11. joefrompa

    joefrompa New Member

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    Bajaspecial (I'll share your name/info if you'd like, but only at your discretion since it's your name and business) -

    I appreciate it. I discovered the fault around 11pm on Saturday night and sought advice on here. My initial reaction was concern that my family was in danger, which made me over-react. Like I said, I should've called you first on Monday.

    As you point out, within 24 hours of you receiving the photos you had came to my house, fixed it, cleaned the liner out in case the elbow break had caused creosote build-up, inspected everything, and took the time to answer all my questions. Despite my original reactions, I can't ask for much more than that and I appreciated your demeanor throughout.

    As far as I'm concerned, this issue has been satisfied for me. It was unfortunate, but no other harm was done besides a few hours of life/work lost. I'll respond to things in this thread, but aside from that I consider this done as well. I am going to post an update in a week or two on the performance of my stove after all this is done.
  12. bajaspecial

    bajaspecial New Member

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    Honestly joe i would prefer that you didnt, and heres why.

    unless someone is to read this from start to finish and absorbe the time frame of the information given to see the responce time that was given once we were to find out about the problem it does not look good or even what should have been expected for you shelling out your hard earned money.

    unfortunatly most people only look at one post prior and shoot from the hip with a comment, wrong or right. and the feeding frenzy begins

    if you personally feel we did what you expected personal ,friends and family referals are more than appresiated but as far as here id say no thank you.
  13. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Now this is what I was waiting to hear!!!!! :) Now, I realize it's been 6 pages worth of posts but I have to say it...... I told you so!

    And I'm willing to bet nobody's eyes were watering either! (unless this was the first time the stove got hot enough to cure the paint).

    So glad to hear that things are not only safe but performing as they should also.

    I just knew you wouldn't believe the difference once things were fixed. This is a terrible situation that could have had equally terrible consequences. Lets all be thankful that it is resolved and everyone is no worse for the wear. End of bad story, start of good story where the stove actually does what it's supposed to!

    pen
  14. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I am closing this one folks. It is fixed. But not without a little editorializing. Enough stresses on that elbow to bust it should never have happened. I think the installer knows that. And the installer should have been contacted immediately. I think the OP knows that.

    If either feel otherwise then jump on me in PMs. Like everybody else does. :lol:

    But the story has a happy ending.
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