1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

I stink at bucking...

Post in 'The Gear' started by Jay H, Apr 20, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    659
    Loc:
    NJ
    The Makita has an inertial brake on it but the chain coasts to a stop after the switch is released, I haven't tried to see how much force it has with the chain when released though.. maybe I'll check that out the next time I use it....

    Thanks for all the sharpening info, my kit is on it's way, at least for my Husky that I ordered, I need to get a kit for my Makita which according to precaud is 3/8” low profile chain, and uses a 5/32” file...

    Jay

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,293
    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
  3. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Might I add another footnote to chain and bar maintenance? Do not forget to reverse your bar occasionally. I reverse mine every 10 hours of use.

    If you continue to leave it set it will hollow out and become useless. By rotating it you will extend its life and get more even results.

    Just like any activity practice makes perfect. one that occasionaly files a chain is not going to get the results as one that practices it often.

    I'm going to differ with Eric's practice of sharpening every tak fillup Not saying Eric's method or practice ie wrong But I do it different.

    Just like any tool there is a learning curb One will notice and see a way a saw cuts One can judge by the size chips expelled or the amount of finer sawdust observed,

    finally if one has to apply more pressure tto cut. I sharpen the chains when I start seeing too much finer sawdust expelled./ My thinking is, if things are cutting right.

    then don't mess with it, till you have to. Untill you get the filing down, you can actually dull a chain or create a hook and make matters worse.

    Second part of chainsaw opperations are two part . If I'm about to drop a tree I plan ahead.I make sure I have a backup plan. I never attemp my first cut.

    without knowing how much gas is in the tank. Sceond part is I have a backup saw I know works and it has a full tank and sharp chain. This is even before I make my first cut.

    and planned the drop path. These precautions are less of an issue once you have dropped the tree.. Another practice I do, is take a small cap full of oil

    and coat the end sproket every tank re- fill. Naturally I examine the tree to see where it is leaning and make the proper notch and cuts and before I begin sawing to have full PE on.

    I also plan a path of excape should things not go as planned. When bucking it is very important to keep your work area clean and free of branches. Never over reach

    and plan and think about what you are doing. Lots of time the rounds I cut I position them under the tree and ahead of the next round to be cut. This keeps your bar off the ground and

    supports the weight of the trunk transfere therby eliminating binding and kick back
  4. TruePatriot

    TruePatriot New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Eric,

    That’s a great idea, using the C-clamp and flipping the saw. I’m actually fairly ambidextrous, (growing up left-handed in a right-handed world will tend to do that to a person) but there are some activities (particularly sharpening, bodywork, welding, etc…) where I know my approach from one side is definitely better than from the other. I may just give your system a try—thanks.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Hogwildz,

    I hear ya, about user error, and powered sharpeners—I’ve never got to try a powered sharpener myself, so I guess I spoke too soon, re: whether they really eat more tooth than hand-filing. What you say makes sense. Does the Dremel attachment have a jig, allowing various angles to be set?
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Elk,

    I'm only a layman, but I thought this little "primer" of yours was excellent--I've bolded the things that really rang true, for me:

    Your idea about a cap of oil on the bar nose is interesting. I've found that some folks are not aware that the tiny holes in the end of a sproket nose bar are actually where you stick your tiny, chainsaw-dedicated grease gun, on both sides, each time you fill up with gas. However, on the bigger, older saw I'm using, (Homelite 360 Professional) it doesn't have a sprocket nose, so there's now way to grease it. I was kind of thinking I didn't need to worry about lubing the bar nose, but I guess I'll start oiling it manually.

    Re: having a backup saw--Amen! One time, when I either neglected this good advice or my backup saw wouldn't run (can't remember) I had the "pleasure" of unbolting the bar and leaving it in the half-cut (dangerous) tree, where my not-careful-enough technique (at that time) had caused it to become pinched. I had to return with another saw, and free the original bar. (And this process was by no means easy, the saw was brand new, and I was certain I had "tweaked" it, but it came out unscathed, happily, unlike my pride.) Of course, it was even more painful to have a local I know roll by on his ATV, taking my folly in at a glance, to be forever recycled (I'm sure) around certain coffee tables. A second saw can not only prevent injuries to your body and property, but to your dignity, as well. LOL
  5. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,705
    Loc:
    Central NYS
    Greasing the tip is optional. The word among pros is: either grease it or don't grease it, but don't just grease it part time. Personally, I think it's a waste of time.
  6. WarmGuy

    WarmGuy Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    492
    Loc:
    Far Northern Calif. Coast
    I'm just finishing "The Good Woodcutter's Guide," from the library; recommended by someone on this forum. The author discusses all the points in this thread -- recommended read.
  7. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Loc:
    Northeastern MA (near Lowell)
    I flip my bar any time I have to take the bar cover off to change the chain or whatever... Since I use an HF chain sharpener, I am swapping my chain every few tanks, so this works out pretty well.

    My first bar died because the sprocket nose bearings fried and eventually did a major meltdown. I now grease with every tank, but I normally only hit one of the grease holes, with one hit off the gun - this pushes grease out the other side of the bar, so I'm obviously getting enough. (The first time I greased the bar it took about 4 hits...)

    One thing I found on my saw at least, is that I use about one tank of bar oil to one tank of gas... There is a flange part way down in the gas tank intended to keep you from filling it all the way, but if you do then the oil runs out before the gas does. IMHO you should make sure you have about an 1/8th of a tank of bar oil left when you run out of gas, if the oil tank is empty when you go to fill up, either adjust the oiler, or don't fill the gas tank as full.

    The problem with chaps and the electric chainsaws is that the electric saws don't have the same sort of power curve and drive setup that a gas saw does. A gas saw has a clutch that slips if the chain jams, and puts out less torque as the engine slows in any case (and I think there is an assumption that if you stick the saw into your leg you will let go of the throttle!) With an electric saw, the motor drives the chain directly and the torque of the drive stays high even as the motor slows, so even with the chain jammed the motor will still keep trying to drag it around however slowly.

    If you actually read some of the stuff I've found on chaps, they aren't actually supposed to do all that much for you if you hit yourself with a saw that is running wide open - they are only suposed to stop a chain moving below a certain speed, which is less than the speed of even a homeowner grade saw. The chaps and other gear are more intended to prevent harm from contacts made while the saw is "winding down" after you let go of the throttle, whether its because of an "Oh Chit" kickback, or just bringing the saw back to rest after finishing a cut. I think they should make more of an issue of this in order to keep people from developing a false sense of comfort from all the "armor" they are wearing - the PPE helps, but it is not a "brain substitute" and one should be aware of it's limitations.

    Gooserider
  8. TruePatriot

    TruePatriot New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    156
    Eric,

    This is interesting:

    Why do they say that, if you know? I wonder what the reasoning is--that greasing it draws in more contamination, which you then have to keep lubed?

    My first sproket nose bar did not get greased because I didn't know about this, and that is the only one I had fail--the sprocket actually shattered, jamming the chain. But it was also a low level, homeowner-class Poulan Mirco XXV with the original, 12" bar, purchased used, so perhaps it was doomed anyway? I dunno.
  9. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,705
    Loc:
    Central NYS
    You're right--the theory is that the grease collects contaminants, which must then be driven out by putting in more grease. Once you start, it's not smart to stop.

    I've killed my share of roller-nose bars and replaceable tips, but almost always by jamming or otherwise abusing the saw tip. Grease wouldn't prevent that.
  10. carpniels

    carpniels Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    536
    Loc:
    Rome, NY, USA
    hi guys,

    Interesting observations.

    I just got my new 346XP (yes, finally) and I used it for 1 tank of gas yesterday. Half way though, the chain would not move. I revved it but the clutch started to heat up. I shut it off and took the chain and bar apart. It turned out the sprocket was stuck (?). I greased it and got it to move again. Remounted it all and tightened the chain and I was good to go. 1/4 tank later, the chain left the bar (huh?). I took it all apart again and greased it all and put it back together. It worked fine afterwards.

    THis was the firsttime I had not greased the sprocket. It still had grease from the factory. Still the sprocket got stuck. Only greasing it myself solved the issue. What gives?

    Anyway, I have always and will always grease my sprocket myself.

    Carpniels.

    PS. I got a tree from my neighbor's that I was cutting myself. Don't know what kind, but here is the description: Large (over 60 ft tall. over30 inch at the base. The wood is white, with straight grain [the easiest to split wood I ever had]). The wood is heavy with water, but the few places where the branches snapped when the tree fell, are all grey and remarkably light. Any idea what tree this is?
  11. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    659
    Loc:
    NJ
    The Makita supposedly has a slip clutch on it, accoding to somebody's post here, I've had the chain get caught a couple times in the big logs I'm splitting, and I release the bar a bit and it goes back.

    I went and bought a 4mm file kit for the Makita made by Oregon and resharpened my Makita's chain... Pretty easy, just 2 or 3 files lining up the 30deg mark with the chain. I used a sharpie to mark where I started and rotated the chain. I cut a few more rounds afterwards before I had to go to dinner and definitely a big improvement. Very easy and very fast, doesn't seem worth it to use any kind of motor if you ask me. I, being a rote beginner only took about 10 minutes to file the whole 16" chain...

    Thanks all for the filing tips. One question, it is OK to move the chain by hand with the engine off and the brake off of course? I would rotate the chain with my hand to pull the cutting teeth to the top. The only thing I didn't check was the depth gauge but this is my first filing and I don't have a gauge yet...

    I guess I'll have to look at grease guns soon...

    Jay
  12. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Loc:
    Northeastern MA (near Lowell)
    It is OK for the aaw to move the chain around by hand, but you should be careful while doing it - the chain is sharp enough to do serious damage if your hand slips - wear a glove... I generally see it reccomended when checking tension to move the chain around and try the tension two or three different places on the loop - should be the same or close to it. Also if the chain is harder to move than usual, that may indicate "something wrong"

    If you haven't gotten it, Oregon has a nice free booklet on chainsaw info that they will send you on request, it has a list of all their chains and the specs on them, plus advice on chain maintainance, bar care, safety, etc... Obviously intended to sell their chains, but good information regardless. It's mostly the same stuff they have on the website, but it's hard to drag a website into the woods with you...

    Gooserider
  13. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    659
    Loc:
    NJ
    Thanks Goose, I will check out their website. Strange enough that when I was at the Lowes, I flipped through Oregon's chain replacement guide and it doesn't list the Makita UC**** series in there, but it seems my Makita Manual says 91 and I know precaud mentioned that in one of the earlier replies on Elk's UC4000 thread...

    Jay
  14. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,288
    Loc:
    Sunny New Mexico
    Jay, definitely check the height of the rakers, you'll likely notice an even bigger improvement than the sharpening gave. As far as non-safety chain, look at the 91VX56 (or 91VS56). Amick's stocks them. They also have all the Oregon sharpening goodies.
  15. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    Messages:
    659
    Loc:
    NJ
    Thanks Precaud, I notice on Oregon's chain finder, basically there are two types of chains for the Makita, the 91VS which is the low-kickback chain and the 91VX which they list as the one that failed some kind of safety test for kickback. I gather this is what you mean by "safety chain". So far, all the kickback I've felt has either been intentional or expected or when somewhat plunge cutting inside a round to get the most reach out of the 16" bar. How much more/severe the kickback would be with the 91VX?

    I'll probably run this chain til it can't be sharpened again and then go out and buy another one. There is an Oregon chain saw shop about 1.5 miles from me so I would just as well buy from them..

    Jay
  16. DiscoInferno

    DiscoInferno Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,327
    Loc:
    Silver Spring, MD/ Munising, MI
    Wait till you hit a rock (my saw is a rock magnet). I'm sure it's possible to rescue a rock chain with a file, but it's a whole lot easier with a grinder. My HF grinder has more than paid for itself. I do hand file for touch-ups and to keep the rakers set (use a Husky Sharpforce to do both at once). Also, I file ambidextrously and like Eric says I can't seem to keep both sides even over a lot of filings. So when the hook starts to get bad, it's grinder time.

    I used to grease my bar nose sprocket , but I tend to forget. Nothing bad has happened yet. I've had the chain seize to the bar in cold weather when the oil gets too thick, but the sprocket was never the problem.
  17. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2006
    Messages:
    2,288
    Loc:
    Sunny New Mexico
    Jay, I've never plunge-cut with the Makita so I don't know. All I know is, the VX cuts a whole lot better than the VG.
  18. Eric Johnson

    Eric Johnson Mod Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,705
    Loc:
    Central NYS
    Just guessing, Niels, but it might be basswood.

    I finally took down "your" dead elm. Got it all split up, too. Couple times I thought it was going to win, but being none too bright, I soldiered on and eventually got it done.

    I've got the 16-inch bar on my 346xp. The sprocket nose is a little funny on mine, too. It jammed up on me once, but has worked OK ever since. You can do a day's work with that saw and not really feel it.
  19. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,674
    Loc:
    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.
    TP,
    Yes the dremmel attachment comes specifically made for chain saw sharpening. Is has a small bracket on it with a guide line on each side for each direction of sharpening.
    For me it became second nature and following the angle of the each blade. I rarely use the guide line, and more sharpen by habit. Its very simple to use. 2 or 3 quick passes and on to the next one. Just have to watch in the beginning of using the tool, as to not go nuts and grind the blades down prematurely.
  20. carpniels

    carpniels Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    536
    Loc:
    Rome, NY, USA
    HI Eric,

    That is what someone else told me too. Basswood. Looks good but I don't know if it will last long in the stove. Seems light.

    You should have called me. I would have helped with the elm. Splitting must have been a pain.

    I got the 18 inch bar because JJ at Kahlers said it runs faster with the 18 vs the 16 inch bar (13.5 vs. 12.7 K RPM). ever heard something like that before? You would think a shorter chain (= less mass) would be easier to move and thus RPM goes up. Not so, according to them.

    Strange huh?

    carpniels
  21. biggins08

    biggins08 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    227
    Loc:
    Springfield MA
    I think JJ was busting your stones. That makes no sense to me.
  22. carpniels

    carpniels Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    536
    Loc:
    Rome, NY, USA
    Hi choco,

    That is what I thought too. smaller bar is smaller chain is less mass to move is faster RPM. Or am I missing something?

    ANyway, I cut up the trunk of the basswood tree and I am glad I had 18 inch. I was short regularly so I had to cut from both sides. And as they say, if you bar is never too short it is always too long.

    Thanks

    Niels
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page