I think I keep over-firing my lopi liberty

[CraftlT]

Got a new lopi liberty a couple months ago and had some small fires with no issues, now that I've had it going 24 hours I can't seem to keep it from over firing.

I know I have a great draft, house is new construction built for a wood stove, very long pipe all the way up.
I'll load splits on to get a long burn, (silver maple cause that's all that grows on my property). Once it gets flames going I turn on the bypass (liberty has a bypass and an air control) Once I see it won't go out I back off the air, recently all the way. It takes a while but eventually it will get crazy. I have a thermometer on the pipe, and one on the stove top. The pipe never gets above 400, but the stove top will get up to 800 (overfire according to the manual) Since the air is already all the way off I have to close the bypass to try to let some heat out. That heats up the pipe up to like 600 and cools the stove back around 700. I have to keep doing this until it is all coals.

I've checked the gasket with a dollar bill, very tight. Is there a way to further reduce the air the air control lets in on a liberty?

 

[begreen]

Not sure how the air intake valve is setup on this stove. Maybe @fossil would know? How tall is the entire flue system on the stove? Have you considered a stove pipe damper?

 

[Woody Stover]

Yeah, can you get a pipe damper in there? I've heard the Liberty likes to run hot to begin with, and with a tall stack and Silver Maple (which gasses fast once it gets burning,) I'm not surprised it is going high on you.

 

[CraftlT]

Haven't considered it, suppose its an option. There is about 20 feet of flu above the stove, straight up, not exposed until the cap.

 

[rwhite]

Silver maple is a weird duck. it goes to from smoldering to an inferno pretty quick. I had a few cords and got to where I mixed it with other wood to slow it down a bit. Or just build a smaller fire and live with the shortened burn times. If you pack it you will probably get some pretty high temps.

 

[St. Coemgen]

I'll load splits on to get a long burn,

But how you do that may matter.

See, for example, Load orientation at:

http://woodheat.org/control-heat-output.html

Just an opinion: To control heat output (over)loading may also be the issue. Consider shorter burns. That is, you may have to deal with not so much want you want (i.e. a full load with long burn time) than with the realities of your stove and chimney setup. You may have to adapt your views how long you can burn or how much you can fill your stove, or maybe consider buying a different stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

You may have to adapt your views how long you can burn or how much you can fill your stove, or maybe consider buying a different stove.

I would get a pipe damper as an immediate solution. For the future, he's got a lot of species of wood in his area, many with slower gassing properties than soft Maple. In a couple years he can have dry Oak, Hickory, or Sugar Maple ready to go, in bigger splits that will tame the burn...or probably EAB White Ash ready by next season. I don't think he will have to switch stoves.

 

[webby3650]

Not sure how the air intake valve is setup on this stove. Maybe @fossil would know? How tall is the entire flue system on the stove? Have you considered a stove pipe damper?

The air comes in front and center through a channel. The air valve is made up of 2 pieces of metal with springs sandwiched between the 2 pieces. This assembly slides into a narrow channel that it slides back and forth in. This box has a few precise holes in it that regulate the air as the slider is moved. The springs give it tension and a simple set screw is it's stop. It would be pretty easy to modify it to allow less air into the box.

 

[kennyp2339]

I quickly scanned through the stove manual..i found some confusing controls, air control - to reduce air flow it must be pulled all the way out (one would think all the way in, buts that's for full air) by-pass to open it, it must be pulled out, to close it must be pushed in.
* I realize there isn't an ash pan on this model

 

[webby3650]

I quickly scanned through the stove manual..i found some confusing controls, air control - to reduce air flow it must be pulled all the way out (one would think all the way in, buts that's for full air) by-pass to open it, it must be pulled out, to close it must be pushed in.
* I realize there isn't an ash pan on this model

On the smaller units from Travis Ind. the air control is opposite. I always have trouble remembering which is which. I wonder why they reversed them?

 

[rdust]

How big are the splits?
I burned a Lopi Endeavor for 2 seasons. It didn't like my chimney(about 30' total) so it went on down the road. It was a well built stove but I had very little control over it even with a pipe damper in place.

 

[begreen]

So to summarize, add a stove pipe damper and try burning thicker splits. Also try closing down the air sooner. If that is not successful then consider adjusting the air control stop.

 

[Chuck the Canuck]

So to summarize, add a stove pipe damper and try burning thicker splits. Also try closing down the air sooner. If that is not successful then consider adjusting the air control stop.

View attachment 188441

I had the exact same problem running my Drolet Austral when I first got it, with the stove running very hot up into the mid 800's on the stove top even with the air fully shut off (the flue is a straight run 22' to 25' to the top of the chimney). I installed the damper shown here in begreen's post, and it has given me the control that I needed so that I stopped over firing the stove. I have to use the damper throughout the coldest times of the winter in order to keep the burn regulated; I start off by slowly closing down the regular air control on the stove, and then usually end up closing the damper about 75% - 85%. It works a charm and is just a regular step in the process of adjusting the stove to get an ideal burn happening.....

 

[CraftlT]

Tried a few splits East west this morning, went nuclear within 20 minutes starting with few coals. Bought that exact damper, will install tonight, splits are pretty small, next year they will be bigger. Plus some beech next year.

 

[begreen]

In our 3 cu ft firebox our splits are usually between 4" and 8". Anything smaller is kindling or gap fillers.

You'll note that the damper has holes. That's so that it can't close off the pipe all the way. If the draft is strong you may find that you can close it completely and still have enough draft for a good fire. Just remember to open the damper first, before opening the stove door and on startup. Otherwise you may get some smoke spillage.

 

[Shmudda]

I have this exact stove since 1997.....

1.) Splits are way to small. The stove is reacting like you are burning kindling to get it going. You need larger wood. The wood I burn in mine I can fit about 2 maybe 3 splits or rounds at the most. This stove likes larger diameter wood, it is a control burn for longer period of time.
2.) Load smaller loads since your splits are to small
3.) To completely choak off all air, the bypass damper on top must be pushed in the whole way and air intake at bottom must be pulled out the whole way.
4.) Expect the thing is going to take off on you and turn it down sooner, expect the expected since you know its going to happen
5.) Good call on the two thermometer use, I do the exact same thing on mine. This allows you to see how the stove is truly burning. The key is to keep the flue pipe around 3-400 degrees and stove in the 550 to 750 deg range. These stove are built to run hot, not glowing, but hot.
6.) Stove is not designed to use a flue damper, I believe this might cause you more harm than good, of course my opinion.

Good luck......

Craig

 

[Woody Stover]

Load smaller loads since your splits are to small....flue damper, I believe this might cause you more harm than good.

If he doesn't have large splits, his only choices are small loads which are a pain, or cut the air with a flue damper. Modifying the stove air intake should be a last resort; Much easier to open a flue damper when it's warm out and draft is marginal, than to reverse changes to the air intake.

 

[Shmudda]

So Woody, you are recommending to modify his stove and flue system just because he doesn't have the right wood? I guess this thinking is like running out to purchase a 2-stroke lawnmower (if you can find one these days) just because you are out of regular fuel and all you have is chainsaw mix to cut the grass that needs mowed.

To me, that is ill advised, get the proper wood sizes for the stove, even if it must be purchased. I never said anything about modifying the air intake, and honestly I don't believe you can on these stoves without major structural modifications.

Trust me, I know every quirk and burb the Libery makes. After 19 years something should sink in......

Craig

 

[bholler]

So Woody, you are recommending to modify his stove and flue system just because he doesn't have the right wood? I guess this thinking is like running out to purchase a 2-stroke lawnmower (if you can find one these days) just because you are out of regular fuel and all you have is chainsaw mix to cut the grass that needs mowed.

No he is recommending putting in a damper because you want to be able to control your stove no matter what wood you put in there. With my stove and chimney I need a damper without question my stove would over draft constantly if I didn't have one. I also close down the intake with a magnet when the outside temps start to really drop. I would not be happy at all if I could only load a few large splits in my stove. For me it burns much longer packed full with smaller splits.

6.) Stove is not designed to use a flue damper, I believe this might cause you more harm than good, of course my opinion.

Yes you are right they are designed to be run without a pipe damper but they are also designed to be run on a 15' stack I believe. If you add more height you also add more draft and you need to counter act that. What harm will a pipe damper cause? As long as it is used correctly there is no down side really.

 

[webby3650]

So Woody, you are recommending to modify his stove and flue system just because he doesn't have the right wood? I guess this thinking is like running out to purchase a 2-stroke lawnmower (if you can find one these days) just because you are out of regular fuel and all you have is chainsaw mix to cut the grass that needs mowed.

To me, that is ill advised, get the proper wood sizes for the stove, even if it must be purchased. I never said anything about modifying the air intake, and honestly I don't believe you can on these stoves without major structural modifications.

Trust me, I know every quirk and burb the Libery makes. After 19 years something should sink in......

Craig

It would be very easy to modify the air intake on any Lopi. It was discussed as a last resort at some point above. You shouldn't have to use only huge chunks of wood either, if this is the case then you have an issue that needs addressed. A pipe damper is the first thing to do.

 

[webby3650]

Have you verified that the glass gasket is good?

 

[Woody Stover]

So Woody, you are recommending to modify his stove and flue system just because he doesn't have the right wood? I guess this thinking is like running out to purchase a 2-stroke lawnmower (if you can find one these days) just because you are out of regular fuel and all you have is chainsaw mix to cut the grass that needs mowed.

Poor analogy. You can go anywhere and buy regular gas. Going out now and getting any wood that is dry, much less large splits, his chances are slim and none. And Slim just left town.
As I said, modifying the stove would be a last resort, and it's probably unnecessary. I'm pretty sure that adding a flue damper will give him the control he needs. My SIL has a flue damper on a 21' stack and it has a noticeable effect.

 

[Shmudda]

Fella's.....I know what works for me, and I would not install a flue damper, just my opinion. You guys don't have to pounce just because someone doesn't agree with what you are saying. I would learn the proper way to burn the stove, just as I have with mine, and take it from there. Trust me, I had a quite a learning curve too, on the stories I could tell. But, thats how you learn. I would never load mine up with small splits like that as it would become a torch, just like his does.....been there done that. Again, live and learn.

As for my chimney, I have a 35 foot tall masonry chimney with a one piece 6" diameter stainless liner that was installed with insulation thru the clay tile flue. On a cold windy day you must pay attention to whats going on or the thing will easily get away from you. One thing that wasn't mentioned here and it has to do with draft, is how "tight" the house is. I'm very sure he isn't using outside air for combustion, so he must have many areas where he is getting outside air infiltration into his heating area to allow such a draft to generate. I would start there too, because that will make the whole thing much more efficient.

Thanks for the good posts, always willing to learn something new and hear others experiences.....

Craig

 

[webby3650]

Fella's.....I know what works for me, and I would not install a flue damper, just my opinion. You guys don't have to pounce just because someone doesn't agree with what you are saying. I would learn the proper way to burn the stove, just as I have with mine, and take it from there. Trust me, I had a quite a learning curve too, on the stories I could tell. But, thats how you learn. I would never load mine up with small splits like that as it would become a torch, just like his does.....been there done that. Again, live and learn.

As for my chimney, I have a 35 foot tall masonry chimney with a one piece 6" diameter stainless liner that was installed with insulation thru the clay tile flue. On a cold windy day you must pay attention to whats going on or the thing will easily get away from you. One thing that wasn't mentioned here and it has to do with draft, is how "tight" the house is. I'm very sure he isn't using outside air for combustion, so he must have many areas where he is getting outside air infiltration into his heating area to allow such a draft to generate. I would start there too, because that will make the whole thing much more efficient.

Thanks for the good posts, always willing to learn something new and hear others experiences.....

Craig

Why are you so sure a pipe damper is the wrong answer. Maybe you would also greatly benefit from one? If a stove is that volatile, something might need addressed.

 

[bholler]

Fella's.....I know what works for me, and I would not install a flue damper, just my opinion. You guys don't have to pounce just because someone doesn't agree with what you are saying. I would learn the proper way to burn the stove, just as I have with mine, and take it from there. Trust me, I had a quite a learning curve too, on the stories I could tell. But, thats how you learn. I would never load mine up with small splits like that as it would become a torch, just like his does.....been there done that. Again, live and learn.

And you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. But It is perfectly acceptable to install a pipe damper on a stove that has to much draft. I have never talked to a manufacturer that did not say that. And I would never be happy with a stove that I could only load a few large splits in. That just would not work for me and I would never install a stove that way for a customer either. If it works for you that is fine but it does not work for most people. We want to have control of our stove in any situation.