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I would really like to use my stove right now. . . .

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by loadstarken, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. loadstarken

    loadstarken Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    Redmond, WA
    But I can't because there is another "Stage 2" burn ban in my county! Grrr!

    I was out in the driveway today splitting some wood when someone that was power walking thru the neighborhood stopped to tell me that if I was burning I could be fined $1000. I pointed to my chimney and asked if if it looked like I was burning and he said nope. Well little does he know that I was but the exhaust was totally clear. Hehe

    I'm soon tired of these burn bans!
    Seanm and raybonz like this.

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  2. rkshed

    rkshed Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    NH
    Wow!
    What more will our government try to ban?
    I bet if this gets around, there will be a run on stoves.
    CenterTree and ScotO like this.
  3. Wood Duck

    Wood Duck Minister of Fire

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    I would hate to live with burn bans, but on the other hand I have seen places where smoky wood stoves create really unpleasant and probably dangerous air quality. The problem is that some wood burners (the people and/or the appliances) create tons of smoke. A couple of my neighbors produce so much smoke you'd swear they must be trying to maximize smoke output. How do you produce non-stop smoke from a wood stove? If everyone made an effort to control the smoke from their stoves there would be a lot less readon for burn bans.
    corey21 and firebroad like this.
  4. Treacherous

    Treacherous Minister of Fire

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    WA state
    Looks like stage 2 went into effect in King, Pierce, Thurston and Snohomish counties.yesterday.

    http://waburnbans.net/
  5. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    southern ontario
    They really should exempt modern cat and secondary burn stoves from the burn bans...with a caveat that you would be subject to fines if burning during a burn ban and producing visable smoke other than at the initial startup. The clean burning wood stoves produce less emmision than cars driven all over the place, or than oil furnaces. Do they place driving restrictions, or home heating oil restrictions? I think I'll start a new thread. I've been wondering for the past month why local fire departments/governments don't drive around their communities during the winter, and glance at the stovepipes/chimneys/smoke trails, and then take appropriate educational action when a bad situation is observed. Would sure both cutdown on pollution and chimney/home fire.
    ScotO likes this.
  6. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    Long Island, NY
    You can burn smoke dragons cleanly also. It is easier to burn cleanly with a modern stove but I know a lot of EPA stove owners that do not know how to burn in them. They produce as much smoke as any smoke dragon. With the EPA stoves, when the inspector sees smoke, is he supposed to knock on the door to inspect the stove, see if it is EPA, and try to determine if it is in start-up mode? It would become impossible to enforce.

    It takes a little time & effort but you can start an EPA stove without smoke. If they exempt any solid fuel burning appliance the only condition should be that there is no smoke at any time during the "smoke ban". Smoke out the flue, summons, tell it to the judge.

    KaptJaq
  7. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I have a question in regards to these burn bans.

    We have a couple of wood fired pizza places by us. Their chimneys are always smoking. Do these burn bans effect business or just residential?
  8. blades

    blades Minister of Fire

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    Counter productive is the understatement of the year!
    Trilifter7 likes this.
  9. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Smoke combined with black cap/pipe is a sign of a problem, to my mind. Don't see why one would need such an absolute. After all, the law about dogs barking is generally they can't bark for more than 10 minutes straight. It is pretty obvious, once one is watching for it, when someone is burning with visable smoke more often than not.
  10. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

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    While I have never experienced it, it is my understanding the inversions can be stifling, even to those without breathing problems. If everybody in the valley with a wood stove is burning, it makes it that much worse. Washington has had tough standards for wood burning appliances for a long time.
  11. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover Minister of Fire

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    So what's the strategy? Have a stove that can burn 12 hrs, two loads a day, reloading under cover of darkness?
    rkshed, ScotO and milleo like this.
  12. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    Have a few of those guys around here as well. One is bad enough that he regularly fogs out the whole highway that runs a few hundred feet from his house :eek:

    Instead of punishing all why not just punish the idiots that are pouring smoke like a freight train? Was reading an article in the paper the other day, the state is suing a family in Fairbanks for smoking out the school constantly.
    http://www.newsminer.com/news/local_news/article_1206334a-5a3b-11e2-8e89-001a4bcf6878.html
  13. lopiliberty

    lopiliberty Minister of Fire

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    I thought a burn band meant you couldn't burn brush? I know what you mean about smoky neighbors. I live in kind of a small valley and down wind from 5 outside stoves within a 1/2 mile from my house. They don't smoke all the time but when they do the valley has a slight haze and a strong smell of smoke, not to mention one person burns coal in his outside stove. 80 percent of people in this county would probably freeze to death if they would put a burn ban on wood stove==c
  14. KaptJaq

    KaptJaq Minister of Fire

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    Long Island, NY
    Different locals have different rules. Due to climate, Washington State has some of the most restrictive rules in the country. One smoky stove can cause a haze that covers several blocks downwind...

    KaptJaq
  15. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Wow, never herd of such a thing... that's amazing.

    However, following that link for Stage 2 ban, it says if it's your only source of heat you can burn:
  16. loadstarken

    loadstarken Member

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    Loc:
    Redmond, WA
    I wasn't aware of the ban until I checked their website. I am set to receive email alerts but I never received one for my county.

    Since I was already using my stove I just loaded it up and let it overnight.
    I guess I'll go without a fire today! Ugh!

    Washington always gets screwed because during those big fires in Asia last year you could see the haze in the air here. The weather guy showed how the smoke traveled here which is some crazy stuff! So if we could get other countries to the east of us to burn cleaner we wouldn't have all of these bans IMO.
  17. Treacherous

    Treacherous Minister of Fire

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    Even pellet stoves are banned during stage 2.

    http://www.pscleanair.org/airq/burnban/

    I've heard in urban areas they do night patrols possibly with thermal imaging equipment. The latter may just be hearsay though.

    I imagine a fine for someone outside the city would come from neighbor complaints.
  18. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Oh I have long been irritated with these bans. The folks that issue them are biased and proud tree huggers that have made it a mission to eliminate wood burning whether it is done cleanly or not.

    We have stage 1 and stage 2 bans. The stage one prohibits everything except certified stoves and pellet stoves. Stage two is everything solid fuel burning period including BBQs. Commercial burning is allowed such as the biomass steam generator in downstown seattle.

    The law already exists that smokey chimneys are illegal. The regs call out a certian smoke density (20% opacity I believe) which is quite light as the threshold for being fined year round. The tools already exist to knock out the actual polluters.

    What is most irritating is that the bans are determined by pollutants measured deep in the city and then applied on a countywide basis. Now remember, this is WA, our counties are hundreds of miles wide. They measure pollutants in one place and ban burning in another which is not really per WA state law. The law actually says you have to have reached the threshold in the area of the ban but the gov't thinks we are too stupid to know where we live.

    They used to have a measuring station near my home. It always showed clean air which does not serve the agenda of the clean air agency so they knocked the station out and only now measure the pollution deep in the polluted urban areas.

    I burn under the cover of darkness which is easy to do since in the winter it is dark when I leave in the morning and dark when I return from work. It is my story that the wood heat is my only adequate source of heat. I'll take the risk of proving that when/if I get a ticket in the mail.
  19. katwillny

    katwillny Guest

    They will try to ban any and everything that keeps money out of the pockets of their lobbyists. I dont need the government regulating every single aspect of my life. More regulations mean more regulators.
    Shane N, Trilifter7 and Scols like this.
  20. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    I understand they are now searching forums like this one to find and seek out law-breakers! ::-)

    I also herd they will be pork-rolling a Wood stove ban into the new guns/arms ban bills! ::-)
    ScotO, Joful and Hearth Mistress like this.
  21. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    You're not breaking the law if wood heat is your only adequate source of heat. If I actually had a decent alternative I would probably use it just for the sake of keeping the dust off but I really don't. No central heat in this house.
  22. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    [Said outloud while holding my ear and wearing goggles and a swat team helmet/outfit jumping out of the back of large green van] "HUT HUT HUT, .... 10-4, got it!! We have a fix on him now! Approaching rear chimney! CLEAR!"
  23. katwillny

    katwillny Guest

    the WSTT is coming for you.
  24. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Woops, the stupid agency just changed their rules this year. It is no longer enough to just have no other adequate form of heat. You have to apply for the exemption annualy and be approved. Also, get this, you won't get that exemption if your other heating system was unhooked, damaged, malfunctioned, or somehow not working. So if your house ever had some sort of heat that was ever adequate then you may not burn during a ban.

    Oh well, maybe tonight I'll just burn the electrons.
  25. Treacherous

    Treacherous Minister of Fire

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    WA state
    I had wondered what their policy was if someone pulled out their old electric baseboard heaters.

    Paulywalnut likes this.

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