Ideas needed

[lawandorder]

Well heres my question.. I would like to upgrade my heating in my biggest zone in our house. We have a large great room with a lot of windows (ie heat loss). THe room is currently heated through 44 feet of high trim baseboard heat which is adequate but in the deep winter months runs a lot do to the heat loss with the windows and high ceiling ( 26 ft). When the wind blows and its 10 below the room has cool spots and a lot of air movement. I get a enough heat output on the baseboard when the Tarm is running and I can output 180 degree water. The problem is when my output temps get to the 160 range, the heat output really isnt enough to keep the room comfortable. (wife thnks it feels chilly) I wanted to get rid of the baseboard and thought that radiant floor would be an option. I would have to use the Uponor quiktrak because i dont have access to the floor below as its a finished basement. Now my problem is I will not be able to get enough heat out of the in floor because I only have 440 sq. ft of floor space and I wont be able to output enough btus for the room which means if I do the quiktrak I would still need to keep the baseboard. Does anyone have any ideas on other options in order to increase the BTUs as well as being able to produce adequete heat at lower operating temps? I thought of the Runtal baseboard and have heard there is other companies with lower temp baseboard that would apparantly work but I really havent found anyone that has used the Runtal.. Any help would be appreciated. I figured there is enough experience on this board to point me in the right direction. THanks for the help.

 

[bigburner]

As far as the Runtal goes, used once on a commercial project in front of store front windows for the reasons you explained. {we had it connected to 1.2 million btus plenty of hot water at what ever temp we wanted} You are correct on sq ft for floor not being enough surface area to get the extra btus needed. I have done several very large houses [6,000 to 8,000] with in floor or under floor. In every one we used air handlers as a second stage for the days that you described. These units also were used for the air conditioning. The best suggestion I could make would be to add a fan coil some where in the room there are a lot of attractive ones that are wall mounted or if the design allows using up some closet space for a concealed fan coil. We wold do two stage t-sat. floor 1st stage,coil second stage. the existing base board are probably putting out more heat then the under floor would, so if the base boards go away then the fan coil is a must. The Runtal is OK to work with, look great but very expensive or least it was 4 years ago.

 

[lawandorder]

Yeah from what I have seen the Runtal is pricey, but so is the in floor which I am probably looking at least 2k to do. Has anyone used the Runtal baseboard with a lower operating temp?One thing I want to accomplish is to increase my usable BTUs by being able to get enough btus out of the system at a lower operating temperature

 

[bigburner]

If were R set on base board, I would have or do it my self. build my own base board. The Runtal is nothing more then tubing welded to end caps. You could design it taller longer, shorter, what ever to fit your room. With a little thought it could be the focal point of the room. Have it powder coated what ever color you want. it's all about surface area + water temp + GPM = usable BTUs you know the Delt -T you want. Use the Runtal design data to get an idea of the total amount of area needed and compare it to what you have in already in base board capacity and add 30% more??? These are the cool projects, it's no fun just to install over priced off the shelf stuff.

 

[dogwood]

Have you considered using panel radiators in that room?

 

[PelletGun]

Have you looked at Myson heaters as well? These too are a bit pricey, but they have great btu density for their size. We recently installed one in our show trailer with the quiktrak radiant flooring and run them off the same zone with a mixing manifold. It works great and I like the ability to regulate flow to either the radiant or the panel (I've attached a photo). Here's a link to some of the Myson units:

http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/heat...ts/hydronicradiators/myson/mysondecormain.asp

Another idea would be to use a kickspace heater. I've seen these mounted in the first step of a staircase, under built-in bookshelves, etc. Again, this is something you could turn on and use only when you need, but gives goog btu density for the space claim.

Pellergy just recently converted a house from oil to wood pellets that had these units installed under a room of glass windows:

http://www.beacon-morris.com/html/heat_sliding_glass_door_window.asp

The homeowner said they work really well, but might be difficult for you to install.

Hope this helps a little!

 

[jebatty]

For some ideas on panel radiators, which you may be able to plumb in concert with the existing baseboard:
Panels

 

[DaveBP]

Runtal has a chart for designing output at different water temperatures. I expect it would be useful for other brands of panel as well.

http://www.runtalnorthamerica.com/bisque/calculating_btuh.html

I think the basic idea is to use more panel area for lower water temps. Add more panel area until you get the BTUs you want at the temp you choose (or until you run out of money, if that comes first).
With some planning, you could plumb them up so it would be easy to add more as money became available.

 

[PelletGun]

Here is another product that a friend of mine mentioned the other day. Maybe a bit too commercial looking:

http://www.smithsenvironmental.com/html/psu.html

The up side is that they are quiet and can be turned up on the cold days and left off on the warm ones.