Identification and Installation Considerations for Radiant Versus Convective Stoves

[Renovation]

How-dee,

I've been reading a couple of threads by people who switched to stoves that were more convective and less radiant (Timberline to Blaze King, Englander to Anderlea), and how it took some adjustment to appreciate the gentler heat and get the best out of them.

It got me wondering if this is an important distinction, and if newbies like me should know what kind they're getting, and how to install each type to its best advantage? This is not a theoretical question, for I am planning an install for a Blaze King King. If there's already a FAQ on this I missed it--please point me to it, and accept my apology.

So firstly, what makes a stove convective, and can a body know just from the construction? Are stoves with shields and an airspace generally convective, and usually need an attached blower to get out the most heat? What about stoves with high thermal mass, like cast iron and soapstone? Are they more convective because they generally run cooler? Do they generally need more airflow to conduct/convect the most heat off their cooler surfaces, since they don't radiantly heat up the stuff around them as much?

Are radiant stoves simpler to get heat out of--just let them heat whatever they shine on?

I'll share a couple of installation ideas, for the sake of discussion, comment, laughter, and general derision.

Installation of a radiant stove, with big temperature swings: For this, I can think of two options. One is to put the stove out in the open, and just let it heat everything up in the room, and be done with it. The disadvantage might be getting cooked near the stove, and big temp swings. So a solution might be to recess the stove somewhat, and put some thermal mass outside the stove to convect and smooth out the temp swings, and a fan to move the air around. BrotherBart may be getting an itching sensation at this point:

[quote author="BrotherBart" date="1166257257"]I think radiant vs. convection is a crock. That is why I bought a big ass radiant stove with a kick ass blower to put half in and half out of my fireplace to replace the insert. Convect a bunch and radiate a bunch. Get the air in that fireplace hot and let that blower blow it out of there.[/quote]

BB, do you think that fireplace smooths out the temperature swings for you?

So is that a good strategy for a radiant stove with temperature swings?

Installation of a radiant stove with low temperature swings: Now for the Blaze King, there's the thermostat for more constant temps, and the choice of shielded or not. I'd like to go without shielding or an attached blower, so that I can go with a quieter external fan, or none at all. Since the King can hold a fairly steady temperature, I'm thinking I don't need thermal mass to smooth things out, but just need to get the heat out of the stove. So I'm thinking of an angled nook, with sheet metal shields that have an air gap between them and the wall. But in this case the shields aren't there to protect the walls, but to intercept the radiant energy and both reflect it out into the room and convect over their large surfaces.

I'm thinking this might be a pretty good match for the King--silent, and works during power outages. Thoughts?

Thanks for putting up with my pestering. As I read through the threads, I am continually impressed by the wisdom, resourcefulness, wit, and helpfulness of the folks here. Happy burning!

PS I know the most important thing for a newbie to do is to get seasoned wood, and I've secured some. Before I even have my stove! Where's my gold star?

 

[dave11]

I'm not sure what sort of measurement the stove makers are doing that allows them to say how much a stove is radiant vs. convective. You would want to maximize both, to keep as much heat in the room and less up the chimney. In other words, just because a stove is said to be strongly radiant or strongly convective probably is not very valid. A blower running is going to increase the convective property of any stove.

Instead, I would look more at the stove's efficiency, and manufacturer's reputation.

 

[Todd]

IMHO, if you are installing a stove in an open floor plan a radiant stove works best, for a chopped up floor plan with a smallish stove room a covective stove and blower works better to help push the heat throughout.

 

[begreen]

I'd put a radiant stove in a location that has large open spaces and perhaps high ceilings that can pocket convective heat. For us, convective is much better because we don't have the space for a big radiant stove. Our floor plan is open. We use the blower only when it is very cold out. There is an ecofan on the stove that gently assists air circulation, but that's it. The advantage of this set up is even temps throughout the house. You can go from the living room (where the stove is) to the kitchen pantry (farthest point away) and the temp does not vary more than a couple degrees. Even upstairs is only about 4-5 deg. cooler.

 

[qlty]

If you have a hot air heating system think of this.I put a 70,000 btu wood coal/wood burner in years ago in my basement and bought an accessory sheet metal surround that is ducted into my oil fired hot air return duct.The heat from the stove flows backwards into the system so heat comes out all of the return registers in the house.Been using it to heat the whole house every winter oil prices get too high.Its a Dickson Unit and I believe its no longer in business but I'm sure other Co.s offer this setup.

 

[joefrompa]

I have a convective stove with a jacketed firebox (about 1" airspace all the way around where the blower pushes air through). It's in a remote portion of my home without alot of easy accesses to the rest of the home, and is also on an exterior chimney (huge heat suck).

Without the blower, I don't get alot of heat output into the home. With the blower on for a few hours and the stove cranking at 400 or above, I can comfortably heat 600 square feet to 80-85 degrees adn the rest of the first floor to an ok temp (still having problems getting the air into those other rooms, even with lots of fans).

If you have a de-centrally located fireplace without a tremendously open floor plan, I recommend a convection unit. Even moreso if you have a central-heating system where there's a fan you can turn on from time to time.

 

[begreen]

If you have a hot air heating system think of this.I put a 70,000 btu wood coal/wood burner in years ago in my basement and bought an accessory sheet metal surround that is ducted into my oil fired hot air return duct.The heat from the stove flows backwards into the system so heat comes out all of the return registers in the house.Been using it to heat the whole house every winter oil prices get too high.Its a Dickson Unit and I believe its no longer in business but I'm sure other Co.s offer this setup.

No, this is very much against code these days.

 

[Renovation]

I'd put a radiant stove in a location that has large open spaces and perhaps high ceilings that can pocket convective heat. For us, convective is much better because we don't have the space for a big radiant stove. Our floor plan is open. We use the blower only when it is very cold out. There is an ecofan on the stove that gently assists air circulation, but that's it. The advantage of this set up is even temps throughout the house. You can go from the living room (where the stove is) to the kitchen pantry (farthest point away) and the temp does not vary more than a couple degrees. Even upstairs is only about 4-5 deg. cooler.

Thanks to all for all for your comments.

BG,

Is your house tight and well insulated? It sounds like it is, to have such consistent temps through your house without much effort into circulation?. Do you use your furnace fan to circulate air?

My focus in this thread is identifying what sort of heating a stove provides before buying, and designing the install to take advantage of that type.

For example, I think your Anderlea has an airspace between the steel and the cast iron, so it's easy to predict it's a convector, right? But a Blaze King King without shields would be more radiative at high temps, but more convective when burning low and slow, where it would heat more like a cast iron or soapstone stove--true?

Maybe I should just ask that question to Blaze King owners, rather than trying to understand the principles?

I'm planning on the King for it's long burn times and temperature control, for 24/7 heating, and figuring out how to install it best.

My upshot with the unshielded King is to install it in a gently-setback nook, to allow good air circulation, with angled walls clad with sheetmetal with an airspace behind, to reflect radiant energy and transform it into convection, and channel convected air into the room. Comments? Thanks to all for your insights, and have a great day.

 

[Renovation]

If you have a hot air heating system think of this.I put a 70,000 btu wood coal/wood burner in years ago in my basement and bought an accessory sheet metal surround that is ducted into my oil fired hot air return duct.The heat from the stove flows backwards into the system so heat comes out all of the return registers in the house.Been using it to heat the whole house every winter oil prices get too high.Its a Dickson Unit and I believe its no longer in business but I'm sure other Co.s offer this setup.

Thanks Q,

I'm not going your route, but I am planning on using the furnace fan to circulate heat. I've put in extra outlets and returns to move the air around, and got a furnace with one of those DC fans that don't use much power.

 

[Renovation]

If you have a de-centrally located fireplace without a tremendously open floor plan, I recommend a convection unit. Even moreso if you have a central-heating system where there's a fan you can turn on from time to time.

Thanks Joe,

Folks here are so helpful. Yes, I am planning to use the furnace fan, so my challenge/goal is to efficiently get the heat from the unshielded King into the air, so the furnace can circulate it..

 

[begreen]

I'd put a radiant stove in a location that has large open spaces and perhaps high ceilings that can pocket convective heat. For us, convective is much better because we don't have the space for a big radiant stove. Our floor plan is open. We use the blower only when it is very cold out. There is an ecofan on the stove that gently assists air circulation, but that's it. The advantage of this set up is even temps throughout the house. You can go from the living room (where the stove is) to the kitchen pantry (farthest point away) and the temp does not vary more than a couple degrees. Even upstairs is only about 4-5 deg. cooler.

Thanks to all for all for your comments.

BG,

Is your house tight and well insulated? It sounds like it is, to have such consistent temps through your house without much effort into circulation?. Do you use your furnace fan to circulate air?

My focus in this thread is identifying what sort of heating a stove provides before buying, and designing the install to take advantage of that type.

For example, I think your Anderlea has an airspace between the steel and the cast iron, so it's easy to predict it's a convector, right? But a Blaze King King without shields would be more radiative at high temps, but more convective when burning low and slow, where it would heat more like a cast iron or soapstone stove--true?

Maybe I should just ask that question to Blaze King owners, rather than trying to understand the principles?

I'm planning on the King for it's long burn times and temperature control, for 24/7 heating, and figuring out how to install it best.

My upshot with the unshielded King is to install it in a gently-setback nook, to allow good air circulation, with angled walls clad with sheetmetal with an airspace behind, to reflect radiant energy and transform it into convection, and channel convected air into the room. Comments? Thanks to all for your insights, and have a great day.

It's a 1924 farmhouse that we have tightened up a lot, but it still has some basic leaks. The heat pump fan rarely if at all comes on while the stove is running. The house is pretty much naturally aspirated unless it is very cold outside. Then I put a fan in my office, blowing towards the stove to bring heat into it. The Alderlea series are definitely convective stoves.

 

[daleeper]

How-dee,

So firstly, what makes a stove convective, and can a body know just from the construction? Are stoves with shields and an airspace generally convective, and usually need an attached blower to get out the most heat? What about stoves with high thermal mass, like cast iron and soapstone? Are they more convective because they generally run cooler? Do they generally need more airflow to conduct/convect the most heat off their cooler surfaces, since they don't radiantly heat up the stuff around them as much?

Are radiant stoves simpler to get heat out of--just let them heat whatever they shine on?

I'll share a couple of installation ideas, for the sake of discussion, comment, laughter, and general derision.

Installation of a radiant stove, with big temperature swings: For this, I can think of two options. One is to put the stove out in the open, and just let it heat everything up in the room, and be done with it. The disadvantage might be getting cooked near the stove, and big temp swings. So a solution might be to recess the stove somewhat, and put some thermal mass outside the stove to convect and smooth out the temp swings, and a fan to move the air around. BrotherBart may be getting an itching sensation at this point:

I think radiant vs. convection is a crock. That is why I bought a big ass radiant stove with a kick ass blower to put half in and half out of my fireplace to replace the insert. Convect a bunch and radiate a bunch. Get the air in that fireplace hot and let that blower blow it out of there.

BB, do you think that fireplace smooths out the temperature swings for you?

So is that a good strategy for a radiant stove with temperature swings?

Installation of a radiant stove with low temperature swings: Now for the Blaze King, there's the thermostat for more constant temps, and the choice of shielded or not. I'd like to go without shielding or an attached blower, so that I can go with a quieter external fan, or none at all. Since the King can hold a fairly steady temperature, I'm thinking I don't need thermal mass to smooth things out, but just need to get the heat out of the stove. So I'm thinking of an angled nook, with sheet metal shields that have an air gap between them and the wall. But in this case the shields aren't there to protect the walls, but to intercept the radiant energy and both reflect it out into the room and convect over their large surfaces.

I'm thinking this might be a pretty good match for the King--silent, and works during power outages. Thoughts?

Thanks for putting up with my pestering. As I read through the threads, I am continually impressed by the wisdom, resourcefulness, wit, and helpfulness of the folks here. Happy burning!

PS I know the most important thing for a newbie to do is to get seasoned wood, and I've secured some. Before I even have my stove! Where's my gold star?

George, you have a lot of things going here, I hope I can address some of them. A true convection stove will have an outer casing all the way around the firebox with an air gap and the ability to blow air through that gap all the way around the firebox. Many stoves including the BK King and Princess only have a portion (back and an optional partial top in the case of BK) of the firebox cased out for convection. I really question how much convective properties they really add to the stove.

Now for my experiences with an old pre-epa radiant stove verses an early epa convection stove (they are totally different stoves). I have had an older earth stove with thermostatic air control that we used for years in a basement install in an office/family room that is relatively small, and it would cook us out of the room, but would heat the house with a 5-8 degree temperature variation except on windy days (it kept the furnace from kicking on). I would choke it down a little more than I should, and clean the chimney a couple of times a year. It had a shield on the back that would direct air from the fan very similar to what the BK without the optional "convection" deck. I now have an older model of Blaze King Royal Heir stove, which has a smaller firebox, but is what I would call a true convection stove, as it has a case all around the firebox. Keep in mind I have not run this stove through cold weather yet, but so far, I have been able to burn it in the shoulder season in the same room to a comfortable level, and kept the heat pump/furnace from firing up with very little wood which I would not have been able to do with the old stove. I attribute this to two things, one is the convection stove. It does not radiate into the room as much as the old earth stove, otherwise it would have cooked me out of here many times in the last two weeks. Second is the much better thermostatic control of the air intake. My old earth stove had this feature, but the temperature in the room would fluctuate several degrees anyway. This Royal Heir has kept the room temperature very steady once set, again keep in mind that we have not really gotten into cold weather yet, so that may change things, there is also a great deal of difference in the firebox size, which probably has it's affects also.

I would avoid placing a stove in a nook, if I am reading your install #2 right, but the steel for "wall protection" that would function as a heat deflector is interesting, but not sure how it would work.

We might need a little more information about your floor plan to help you with your decision. Hopefully BK owners will comment on their convection experiences.