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If you are burning a pre-EPA dragon are you still a "good citizen" w/respect to this forum ?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by SmokeyCity, Jan 27, 2012.

  1. SmokeyCity

    SmokeyCity Feeling the Heat

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    Does this forum take any official position on the ethics of burning a smoke dragon in a case where the owner actually can afford to modernize?

    Many take take a clear position on the importance of following the law w/respect to fire codes and what practices are safe/unsafe.

    I'm curious if anyone cares strongly about those who choose to burn the the dragon even though they have the knowledge and resources to aquire a cleaner and more efficient stove.


    (yea its a really rainy day in Pgh. and im scraping the barrel here for intellectual stimulation)

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  2. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    Well..

    If they don't want to save some wood and be warmer doing it and like to piss off the neighbors with their smoke..I guess it's all cool.
    I'm no greenie by any means..but hey.
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    We urge all wood burners to burn safely and cleanly.
  4. n3pro

    n3pro Minister of Fire

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    IMO, if they are burning seasoned wood hot, it's their choice and freedom. Even an old smoke dragon can be ran decent with the right fuel and air.
  5. Osburning

    Osburning New Member

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    If someone has the knowledge and money to upgrade yet chooses to to continue with an older stove it seems a little ignorant with the smoke up the chimney in the yard and wood consumption. I wouldn't be happy if I was their neighbor.
  6. greythorn3

    greythorn3 Minister of Fire

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    i love the old smoke dragons, allot less picky with wood thats forsure. but then again i like old cars too.
  7. SmokeyCity

    SmokeyCity Feeling the Heat

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    I love old cars too, and have wasted more money on them that I will ever admit.

    They are money pits !
  8. SmokeyCity

    SmokeyCity Feeling the Heat

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    you could be a politician :=)
  9. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    I didn't like it when electronic igintion first came out in cars..I sure was stupid then..lol.
    Stuff is getting a little crazy now in cars thought...but still way better millage and go a lot longer.
    Oh..they burn a lot cleaner now also!
  10. Ehouse

    Ehouse Minister of Fire

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    What's a Greenie?

    Ehouse
  11. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    You know..a tree huger..maybe I spelled it wrong. lol
  12. eclecticcottage

    eclecticcottage Minister of Fire

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    I have an older fireplace...it's definately not EPA. I can't really afford another new stove, but I don't really want to replace it either. Then again, we heat with the tube stove and the cone is for occasional use only.
  13. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    As long as you aren't fogging out the neighborhood everyday I don't care what the stove or fuel is. Though most of my neighbors (including me) burn our trash in outside barrels.
  14. tfdchief

    tfdchief Minister of Fire

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    I guess my signature says it all :)
  15. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    No. Having an "official position on the ethics of burning" (whatever that might mean) is not the purpose of these forums. People come here with questions and seeking information concerning their particular situation, and we do the best we can to give them accurate answers & guidance and steer them in the right direction...the "right" direction being the one that leads to safe installations and burning practices. What people choose to install is their business, and although there are a number of jurisdictions that now prohibit the sale and installation of pre-EPA stoves, there are undoubtedly many more across the country that do not yet (and may never). In any case, we certainly encourage the use of modern, cleaner burning appliances, but we enjoy interacting with burners regardless, and we definitely understand that not everyone can afford a whole brand new installation. Whatever the situation, we have members here who almost always have some good info to share with folks whichever way they're going. We are in no way "official", and I'm not sure I could write a compelling essay on the subject of "The Ethics of Burning". %-P Rick
  16. fredarm

    fredarm Minister of Fire

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    As long as you don't burn green wood and don't shut the air all the way down, most older stoves can burn fairly cleanly. The ones who really annoy me are the OWB burners like the farm down the street who fog up the whole neighborhood, but that's a topic for another forum.
  17. remkel

    remkel Minister of Fire

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    My father burns an old Defiant, I burned a Vigilant until last year. Had it not been for some chimney liner issues, I would still be burning the Vigilant. Some people like the old stoves (including me). Way I see it, unless I am willing to pay their heating bills, who am I to tell a person how to heat their home? The newer technology has been nice, but I think had the EPA stayed out of it, the stove manufacturers would have eventually introduced the new technology just because of the wood savings and more efficient performance. Vermont Castings introduced the primitive re-burn (there may have been others before them, I am not a stove historian) because it was a technology advancement.

    Enjoy your stoves everyone!
  18. sebring

    sebring Member

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    You are still a "good citizen" but we expect them to post about their stoves in the other never read category of Pre-EPA stoves.. LOL
  19. CTYank

    CTYank Minister of Fire

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    You're assuming that the stove is the determining factor in stove's operating cleanliness. Like, fuel quality and operator proficiency have nothing to do with it. Gross over-simplification. Doesn't take too much incompetence to send smoke-signals with an EPA stove.

    Start posting official legal positions here, and sayonara audience.

    Ever hear the one about teaching a pig to sing? Waste of your time and annoys the pig.
  20. Wood Duck

    Wood Duck Minister of Fire

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    My official position is that a wood burner should make an effort to reduce smoke for the benefit of the environment and the neighbors. As far as I am concerned interest and effort to burn cleanly are more important than the appliance used for burning wood. Dry wood burned thoughtfully in an old stove can be a lot cleaner than wet wood smouldering in a new stove, I'll wager.
  21. tfdchief

    tfdchief Minister of Fire

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    Wrong, I read it all the time ;-P
  22. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    +1 i read the topics their a lot.
  23. swestall

    swestall Minister of Fire

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    I don't. But, I also don't like smoke and you don't have to produce it to burn in an old stove. What you do have to do is tend the fire and burn a lot hotter; more air.
    Burning an older stove properly to not produce a lot of smoke is going to give you the other problem; a lot of wood used.
    And, many older stoves do not give you the fireview of a modern stove with a large glass window front.

    I cut the wood use in my home from 5 to 3.5 cords a year moving from an old stove to a Hearthstone. And, the Hearthstone is actually an improvement over my VC Catalytic Defiant. I had the non-cat Defiant too but it was too tempermental to my taste.

    I am burning an old stove in my shop and as long as I burn it hot it does not smoke, I get the same heat wave as the EPA stoves produce. But, you have to watch it because you need to keep the fire up: it won't burn the smoke if you let it burn down and smolder. In fact I am working on a Cannon Army #20 for that spot because I just love its looks; and they heat like crazy.

    So, it is your call; you can burn fairly clean with an oldie but its complicated. Or, you can get a nice new stove and not have to pay so much attention, save wood and enjoy the view. It is really your choice.
  24. Locust Post

    Locust Post Minister of Fire

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    I burn an old stove and yes I can afford a newer one. I do burn well seasoned wood but it still puts out some smoke for awhile on a reload. I have no complaints from my neighbors but then again a lot of folks around me burn leaves in the fall and no one says much. For me it just comes down to the simple fact I can't yet justify spending the money on a new stove when my current one does the job just fine. I may save a little wood but I am going through about 4 cords during a cold winter, 8 to 9 hr burns pretty easy, have plenty of access to wood, and now the old girl is burning better than she ever has since I added the new liner. Actually I now want to burn this stove for awhile because I think my wood consumption is going to drop as I have now been able to shut the air down more and still get good heat and a long burn (have been loading at 6:30 and get home at 5:30 to 6 and many times can reload without kindling). Not getting much creosote either. When I worked the old girl over this year I extended the baffle and made a new damper plate. Don't close the damper down as far as I used to with the slammer install but can really shut the air feed down with such good draw. Of course I drive an older car and truck though too. Keep the wife in a newer one. Sorry so long winded just my 2 cents since you brought it up.

    P.S. I may pull the trigger sometime I've kick the tires a lot.....it would be nice to have a glass door.
  25. fossil

    fossil Accidental Moderator Staff Member

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    The only way to become a "bad citizen" here is to abuse the forums or other members. Then you won't be around much longer. Rick

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