In the nick of time???

[scotsman]

Hi Y'all,
Looks like I have found this site at the perfect time!

We've just moved to the country and have a propane-fired, forced-air heating system in a 2400 sq. ft. house that's only 4 years old. We live in an area where it can be near zero (F), but usually is between +5 (nights) and upper teens for highs, at the worst. Keeping the house at 65 in winter will eat us alive in propane, so we are shopping for a free-standing stove to connect to the (sort of) existing "fireplace" we have, that will see us through cold weather and possible power failures and that we could cook on if necessary. The main floor is about 1600 of the total and would be the main heating objective. We have no idea how to figure the BTU level we need to maintain the 1600 main living area at, say, 72 during the winter. We don't want to overbuy and overheat, but we do want to get it close. The plan is to connect the stove to the existing stainless, triple wall, 8" pipe and cover/seal the existing firebox opening with a sheet of metal through which the flue pipe will extend. We just don't know enough to even be in the right ballpark for stoves for this application and would appreciate guidance.

The one limiting factor is that we need a rear venting arrangement where the top of the flue pipe can be horizontal at no more than 30 1/4" from the floor. Our local dealer has recommended the DutchWest 2461 and/or 2461 XL (cast iron, catalytic) including a fan for each and everything needed to seal the present firebox opening, adapters, connectors, installation, tax and all for $2100.00 and $2332.00 respectively. We are wondering if this is about the right sized unit and price, since we know nothing about either. Being Scottish, I'm interested in getting the best deal for my hard-earned dollar.

I just missed a 35-year old Jotul F 118 recently which would have done the job, I think, but now I'm back to square one.

I'd appreciate the benefit of y'alls experiences and recommendations. Thanks--

 

[begreen]

Welcome TB. Is this a zero clearance fireplace? If so, you can't use the 3 wall pipe. It's not rated for the woodstove heat. Something seems a bit illegal about this installation, but perhaps not. We'll need some more details.

Sounds like you need our man from Lubbock. Calling Bro Bart to the lobby...

 

[BrotherBart]

Old Lubbock boy here. With those temps it sounds like you are in the Panhandle. With that size house and winds that will give you a clean shave in winter in that neck of the no-woods I would suggest that the 2461 Dutchwest just ain't gonna get-er done. You need a bigger stove.

 

[Wet1]

I agree, you're going to want a larger stove than what your dealer is pushing. Meeting your rear vent height arrangement will certainly limit your choices... otherwise I'd say a 30-NC would be right up your ally.

BeGreen also brings up a good point regarding your existing chimney.

 

[scotsman]

Welcome TB. Is this a zero clearance fireplace? If so, you can't use the 3 wall pipe. It's not rated for the woodstove heat. Something seems a bit illegal about this installation, but perhaps not. We'll need some more details.

Sounds like you need our man from Lubbock. Calling Bro Bart to the lobby...

Not sure, but think it's a zero clearance. The dealer is the same one that put the unit in the house when it was built. Frankly, I am not impressed, since I'm a big "massive stone fireplace" fan. The units he's suggesting are all 6" top or rear outlet units. Remember, we are out in the county, so city codes don't apply. Any suggestions on how to minimize existing "faults" and maximize benefits are appreciated. The units he's suggesting give outputs at so many BTUs, but there are EPA ratings and then the "actual" ratings and they are NOT the same or even close.

We're looking at an installation similar to #38 in the photo gallery on this site.

What additional info do you need? I'll try to get it. Thanks--

 

[begreen]

This is a national fire protection code. The pipe on the stove is not rated for the high temps of a woodstove. Have you asked your insurance co what they require? One option, you could possibly put a stainless liner it to make it safe.

What folks are suggesting is that it sounds like you need a stove with a 3 cu ft firebox. Does the dealer sell Jotul or Hearthstone stoves? If yes, perhaps one of their 3 cu ft stoves would work. They both can be connected rear exit. And we have read of Jotul approving the liner method of installation in a ZC box. Most stove companies have not approved this installation.

What's the floorplan like? Is is very open, especially to the room with the ZC fireplace?

 

[scotsman]

Old Lubbock boy here. With those temps it sounds like you are in the Panhandle. With that size house and winds that will give you a clean shave in winter in that neck of the no-woods I would suggest that the 2461 Dutchwest just ain't gonna get-er done. You need a bigger stove.

Any specific suggestions?

Being from Lubbock, you'll know almost exactly where I am if I was to get specific. We are quite a few miles NW of the outskirts of Lubbock and, yes, it can get cold here (all time record-for Lubbock-17 below-- Feb 8, 1933), but it's usually about what I said, although I had 4 below when I was in college at Tech, so it does happen! And then there is the WIND! I just recently took regional honors with 80.3 mph at my weather station! Whoosh!

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah when you mentioned those temps I told my wife that somebody from Hale Center or Plainview just showed up. That rear exit does present a challenge. That Dutchwest is a $1,400 stove and a bigger stove with a rear exit is gonna run in the two grand neighborhood. What is the height of the top of the fireplace opening?

 

[scotsman]

Yeah when you mentioned those temps I told my wife that somebody from Hale Center or Plainview just showed up. That rear exit does present a challenge. That Dutchwest is a $1,400 stove and a bigger stove with a rear exit is gonna run in the two grand neighborhood. What is the height of the top of the fireplace opening?

The max height is 30.25". BTW, what th' heck are y'doin' up in Virginia, FCOL?

 

[scotsman]

This is a national fire protection code. The pipe on the stove is not rated for the high temps of a woodstove. Have you asked your insurance co what they require? One option, you could possibly put a stainless liner it to make it safe.

What folks are suggesting is that it sounds like you need a stove with a 3 cu ft firebox. Does the dealer sell Jotul or Hearthstone stoves?
--No, unfortunately.

If yes, perhaps one of their 3 cu ft stoves would work. They both can be connected rear exit. And we have read of Jotul approving the liner method of installation in a ZC box. Most stove companies have not approved this installation.

What's the floorplan like? Is is very open, especially to the room with the ZC fireplace?

--Floorplan is quite open, great room (location of FP), kitchen, dining area, entry, etc. all in open area. Master and two bedrooms also open off this area.

 

[begreen]

A nice big stove would work well then. Take a look at the Jotul F600 and the Hearthstone Mansfield for starters. They will need a hearth extension and a liner put up the triple-wall, but are more in the Texas league of heaters. Then there is the Hearthstone Equinox too.... Just don't look at the price.

Edit - the Hearthstone Mansfiled mentioned is top exit, belay that suggestion. The Equinox at 4.0 cu ft is definitely Texas sized and has a rear exit option that looks like it will clear.

 

[wellbuilt home]

I have a DW X L in my house now and the stove sits at 32" with 6 " legs 4" legs will work for the hight Ive been heating 3000sf+ and I think The stove works great. I have a 32' ss chiminy . My stove runs 24/7 . My heat has been off for years and dont plan on ever useing it again . I stoped buying oil at .72 per gallon . MY stove would burn 3 or 4 cord of wood a year.The only draw back to the stove was that i needed to splitt the wood to 2x4 size pieces so i could fiil it to the max at night and get full heat . I have a equinox coming in a few weeks. I hope i like it.

 

[DiscoInferno]

Welcome TB. Is this a zero clearance fireplace? If so, you can't use the 3 wall pipe. It's not rated for the woodstove heat. Something seems a bit illegal about this installation, but perhaps not. We'll need some more details.

Sounds like you need our man from Lubbock. Calling Bro Bart to the lobby...

Not sure, but think it's a zero clearance.

While it's true that most non-EPA prefab fireplace chimneys are not suitable, if it's a Majestic fireplace then it might be usable. The WMC42, at least, has HT2100 8" ID triple-wall chimney. The same chimney can be used for the VC Sequoia EPA fireplace. You might want to line it anyway to get better draft, but I think a direct connect would at least be an option in that case.

 

[scotsman]

A nice big stove would work well then. Take a look at the Jotul F600 and the Hearthstone Mansfield for starters. They will need a hearth extension and a liner put up the triple-wall, but are more in the Texas league of heaters. Then there is the Hearthstone Equinox too.... Just don't look at the price.

Edit - the Hearthstone Mansfiled mentioned is top exit, belay that suggestion. The Equinox at 4.0 cu ft is definitely Texas sized and has a rear exit option that looks like it will clear.

Thanks for the info!!
Reading this list, it seems that Jotul gets a lot of "air time". Don't mean to be dumb, but why is that? I know a little about the F 118, but nothing else in the line. The simplicity of the F 118 appeals to me. Would it adequately heat the 2000 sq. ft.? I want something that will stay with me for the long haul. BTW, beauty is NOT a requirement. A large fire viewing area is nice and helpful for adjusting purposes, but NOT a requirement--a small view of the fire is all that's required. Function overrides beauty any day for me, so performance is its own form of beauty in my book. Kinda like a dog--if he hunts, that's good. If he only turns money into poop, that's not good, y'know?

What about catalytic vs. non-catalytic? When I had my last woodstove, cats were not around. From what I read, the non-cats appear to be about the same or a bit better on the emissions and efficiency. Are the cats just another "gimmick" to get more money from us, or are they worth it? In some cases the cats are less expensive than the nons! Confusing!!

I've located the Hearthstone dealer closest to me (Amarillo) and requested info. Are we sure a large box unit is needed? We only have winter for about three, maybe four months. Granted it'll get really COLD, but doesn't last long and there's not much humidity like the folks up in far northeast Texas (up Virginia and New England way)!

And, what about the quality of the Dutchwest cast irons? Will they last for the long haul? This is just what this dealer sells, so naturally you'd expect him to sell what he carries, as opposed to going out of his way to "custom fit" what's best for the house.

Sorry for so many questions, but that and tons of reading is how I learn.

 

[BrotherBart]

You might want to give this guy in Hereford a call. He sells a lot of new stoves on eBay, primarily fireplace inserts, and the prices are fantastic. A couple of Forum memebers have bought from him and appear pleased. I have no idea how many brands he has available.

Given that his prices are great with shipping included one would think they would be even better if the stove was picked up. Don't know but worth a look see.

As to how I ended up in Virginia, the company I worked for asked if I wanted to stay in Texas or did I want to eat.

 

[scotsman]

You might want to give this guy in Hereford a call. He sells a lot of new stoves on eBay, primarily fireplace inserts, and the prices are fantastic. A couple of Forum memebers have bought from him and appear pleased. I have no idea how many brands he has available.

Given that his prices are great with shipping included one would think they would be even better if the stove was picked up. Don't know but worth a look see.

As to how I ended up in Virginia, the company I worked for asked if I wanted to stay in Texas or did I want to eat.

Ah, a rather clear cut choice, I'd say!

Is Justin's the guy up in Hereford? If so, I think I talked to him the other day. If that's not him, can you give me contact info? Thanks!

 

[BrotherBart]

Is Justin's the guy up in Hereford? If so, I think I talked to him the other day. If that's not him, can you give me contact info? Thanks!

Yep. It's Justin.

 

[scotsman]

I agree, you're going to want a larger stove than what your dealer is pushing. Meeting your rear vent height arrangement will certainly limit your choices... otherwise I'd say a 30-NC would be right up your ally.

BeGreen also brings up a good point regarding your existing chimney.

What is a "30-NC"? Thanks--

 

[scotsman]

Is Justin's the guy up in Hereford? If so, I think I talked to him the other day. If that's not him, can you give me contact info? Thanks!

Yep. It's Justin.

Thanks, I'll get back with him. Also, I just finished looking at all 300+ listings on eBay for stoves and didn't find anything from Justin. I'll keep looking. I think the "pick it up myself" is a good idea. I don't mind going around 100 miles (radius) to pick up a stove if I can save enough to make it worthwhile.

The other place (in Amarillo) offered to bring a stove from their place for $50 when her husband comes down to Lubbock on his next trip. That sounds good to me. Can't go up and get it for that!

Since you know the winters in this area probably better than most and have a lot of "stove experience", if you were planning to outfit yourself for a free-standing, wood burning heating unit, what would you buy? Cat or non-cat? How many cubic feet in the box, etc. etc. I don't want to get something that I can only burn kindling in or we overheat, but then I don't want to have to lay in two full cords for three months of cold weather either. There are so many choices that I can't even narrow it down much. Jotul looks good, but the F 600, while very nice, at between $2600 and $3000 is a bit pricey for us--just going from matte black to black enamel was almost a $400 increase, which I thought was a bit ridiculous! What do you think of the F 118? Would it heat the 2000 on the main floor? I think Jotul advertises something like 70,000 BTUs for it and pretty low emissions.

Well, better go do some work, or I won't be eating!! Later and thanks for your help.

 

[BrotherBart]

Here is one of Justin's eBay listings. I don't know anything about the 118 never having even seen one in person. Maybe somebody else here can chime in about it.

I don't think cat vs. not cat makes any difference. That $50 to deliver is a good deal. Personally I wouldn't want a stove in the main area of the house less than a 2.5 cf firebox. I like going to bed and sleeping till sunup.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-THARRINGTON-7400I-Fireplace-Insert-Wood-Stove_W0QQitemZ110276041308

 

[scotsman]

Here is one of Justin's eBay listings. I don't know anything about the 118 never having even seen one in person. Maybe somebody else here can chime in about it.

I don't think cat vs. not cat makes any difference. That $50 to deliver is a good deal. Personally I wouldn't want a stove in the main area of the house less than a 2.5 cf firebox. I like going to bed and sleeping till sunup.

Okay, I must be missing something, but I can't find the link you mentioned. Since I'm new here, I must not know how to access it. Thanks--

 

[BrotherBart]

Fixed it. I hate it when I do that!

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-THARRINGTON-7400I-Fireplace-Insert-Wood-Stove_W0QQitemZ110276041308

 

[Jags]

Texas Boy - with the sqft that you are trying to heat and with an open floor plan as you explained, don't be afraid of the bigger cu ft firebox. Most EPA cert. stoves are pretty manageable for heat output by adjusting air and fuel load. It is VERY rare that we hear about a stove being too big or unmanageable for heat output.

And in response to the "what is a 30NC?" That is an Englander 30NC steel stove. A real good bang for your buck, capable heater in the size range you are looking for. As a matter of fact, your Texan friend (BroB) just so happens to have one.

 

[Wet1]

I agree, you're going to want a larger stove than what your dealer is pushing. Meeting your rear vent height arrangement will certainly limit your choices... otherwise I'd say a 30-NC would be right up your ally.

BeGreen also brings up a good point regarding your existing chimney.

What is a "30-NC"? Thanks--

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html
Probably the best bang for your dollar in a larger stove, and you can get them at the big box stores. I don't think the vent will work for you though.

Edit: I see Jags beat me to answering.

 

[scotsman]

I agree, you're going to want a larger stove than what your dealer is pushing. Meeting your rear vent height arrangement will certainly limit your choices... otherwise I'd say a 30-NC would be right up your ally.

BeGreen also brings up a good point regarding your existing chimney.

What is a "30-NC"? Thanks--

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html
Probably the best bang for your dollar in a larger stove, and you can get them at the big box stores. I don't think the vent will work for you though.

Edit: I see Jags beat me to answering.

So, other than the firebox volume, what is the general opinion of the Dutchwest stove group? Thanks--