Insert questions with pictures

[Spencer H.]

I've been plowing through this site to learn more about my insert that was in the home that we purchased a 1.5 years ago. You folks have created an excellent resource, I must say.

Some background:

Before we burned the first piece of wood, we had a chimney inspection, which went well. The exterior-walled chimney is 8x8 (maybe 10x10, I can't remember and it's too cold and dark to get on my roof tonight) terracotta and was built in 1967. According to the inspectors, the interior had very little creosote build-up and the tiles appeared to be in good condition. We burned wood for about a month last winter and we've been burning all winter this year and things have been wonderful. According to the meticulous records kept by the previous owners, it is a Buck stove (Regular Buck) that was purchased and installed in 1978. I have always been a bit nervous about the safety factors of the installation and tonight, an opportunity for me to check it out was forced upon me because the fan motor began squalling and I needed to pull the insert to get to it. Fortunately, after some internet research, I believe that I'll be able to find an exact replacement motor for the extraction fan.

Anyway, I am somewhat ignorant of what a good, safe install should look like, but I've been reading this site and am beginning to get a feel for it. The purpose of this post is to get your feedback on these interior pictures on how well the installation was performed. I am certain that I'll have some more questions, but here are the pictures with a few comments. Please let me know what you think...



A shot from the front after I pulled the insert:

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A picture of what I've come to learn from this site of the block off plate. It is made from galvanized steel and is quite heavy guage (~1/16"). Note that there is no liner in the chimney. The seal looks to have some amount of hot gas leakage as evidenced by the discoloration surrounding the opening. It was actually a pain to get the insert detached from the plate because it was clamped down to the top of the stove by the damper collar by a few bolts and also, if you look closely, you can see the bent tabs that wrapped around the top plate of the stove. It looked like it was quite a chore to install. This block off plate was a replacement of the original and it was installed in 2004 by the previous owners (I told you they had meticulous records ).

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You can see in this image that the block-off plate is very close to the top of the stove and I had to remove some high-temp sealant at the joint between the stove and the bent corner of the block-off.

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Here is the top of the stove, where the block off mates. Note the two cracks at two of the corners. One of them has been repaired with a 1/4" steel internal patch and the other is essentially a hairline crack on the inside. I would guess that the rust and discoloration comes from the leakage and high temperatures found between the top of the stove and the block-off plate.

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I am going to order a motor for the circulation fan, but in the mean-time, if there is anything that is major-wrong with this installation, it seems that now might be a good time to correct it. Please let me know what you all think and thanks in advance!

 

[ozarkjeep]

that is the strangest stove to flu connection I have EVER seen.

I dont understand how it would seal off at all.

 

[Spencer H.]

that is the strangest stove to flu connection I have EVER seen.

I dont understand how it would seal off at all.

It is strange, indeed. I believe most of the sealing action comes from the fact that the flange of the damper sits above the block-off plate and then is pulled down tight by two bolts that hold the damper in place.
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Here's a picture of the damper with the flange that I mentioned. Believe it or not, the block-off plate is sandwiched between the flange and the top of the stove. It truly was not fun to remove and I do not look forward to replacing it.

 

[ozarkjeep]

wow.

I dont see how you are going to reconnect it?

keep taking pics, that is a VERY interesting install.

I am not qualified to comment on it, but I am curious to see it happen!

 

[Hogwildz]

I removed a Fuego Flame insert last year that had a direct connect (no liner, stove connected direct to bock off plate). It had exact same set up. The galvanized is discolored not so much from leakage, but from over firing the stove. The galvanized chemicals burn off at high temps. The rust and discoloration & cracks on the top of the stove also are indicators of over firing of the stove. The block off plate is actually no a bad job, with the exception (IMO) it should have been closer up towards the old damper area of the old firebox. That way its set up with the front being lower than the lintel, (which is also not sealed at front seam), could allow gases & smoke to come back into house too easily. Knowing the stove has been over fired, & damage as a result, you might want to consider a new stove or insert with a full s.s. liner and new block off plate set a lil bit higher up. If funds allow any of this of course. I myself, would not put a stove back in that I know has been over fired & damaged. Just a safety thing for me and would not be worth losing myself or worse a loved one over.

Also, the white on the outside of the doors and around them, also a definite indicator of having been over fired. The steel gets weak, and thats why you have those cracks on top.

Heres a few photos of my old pc o crap & the tear out. Notice the same setup, and same discoloration of block off plate.

 

[Hogwildz]

A couple more of the old insert & 1 of the new.
Best money I ever spent. Uses way more then less than 1/2 the wood and is much more efficient.
Notice the old insert & old fireplace firebox panels are warped & show def signs of overfiring from one of the previous owners.
And I might add that a new insert with glass door lets much more heat out into the room through the glass.

 

[begreen]

That stove looks like it's been run hard. I would inspect it seriously at all welds, seams and plates. It has been overfired a lot and looks ready for retirement.

 

[Spencer H.]

What exactly should I be looking for when inspecting this stove? We've not budgeted for a replacement this winter and I had the intention of re-installing it. That said, if it is truly putting our home and family at risk, I would be hesitant to do so. Beyond warping and rust, what fails on a stove after it has been run hard? I'll post more detailed pictures later today if that would help the board help me evaluate this stove.

 

[Hogwildz]

With the cracks, its going to suck in even more air, run even hotter and do further damage. Take some photos of all the sides, front, back and some god inside shots of same & especially up top inside. She's looking pretty wooped bro.

 

[Spencer H.]

Update:

There is some minor warpage in the top plate and the back wall. I've inspected all welds carefully and was able to find one small separation in an internal weld that looked like the weld was made without sufficient heat. I've sent pictures of the stove to Buck Stove and spoke with a person who had been with the company for a very long time. He was able to tell me within a year or two of when the stove was produced by little details of the era. We discussed the condition of the stove and he felt very confident that the stove was fine. The cracks on the top were apparently common because of the poor design on the flue cut-out (sharp corners). He told me how to repair them by welding them and I decided to go ahead and do it (including re-welding the separated weld I found) and put the stove back into service for a few more years and be saving for a new one in the mean time. I made the reconditioning my weekend project and now it's ready to be installed as soon as I receive the replacement motor and the door gasket kit. I even took a wire wheel to the entire thing plus surround and repainted the stove while I was at it. If I ever have a problem, I'll be sure to post up here and listen to the "I told you sos" . I'm going to continue to peruse this site - there is a ton of good information here about wood burning...

After the paint job, but before she is back in the fireplace:

 

[Hogwildz]

Well gotta admit it looks good anyways. Nice job.
Did the rep give you any ways to repair the top with suggestions of keeping it from happening again?
Keep us posted.

 

[brooktrout]

Nice job with the restoration! I have a similar one, my Buck is from 1987. My wife wants me to paint it, but I kinda like the RUSTic look :lol: .These older Buckstoves are serious stoves- heavy and thick, beastly and hungry. They will take ALOT of abuse. They just don't make 'em like that anymore. I fabricated a stack connector out of 1/8th inch plate steel that goes past the fireplace damper and transitions to round sinlge wall galvi up to the top. But they do sell a stack connector for your stove- about $120.00. Any questions about this particular stove, I'll be glad to help answer. I am very happy with mine.