Inside - to use insulated or uninsulated pipe?

[sportbikerider78]

I'm going to be installing an Englander 30NC to my home soon (as soon as I can find a good deal ). I have high ceilings and right now, I have uninsulated pipe on the inside of the house (18' straight) to the insulated portion that goes through the roof and sits nicely about 4-5' off the roof. It is 6" pipe. No chimney and no bends. It all looks to be in nice shape and I will clean before the stove is installed.

The plan is to use the stove extensively to reduce my heating costs. I do not see myself frequently, shutting down the stove...few startups.

I believe my setup is optimal for draft and that should not be too much of a concern....straight shot..no bends. I understand you can improve draft and reduce build up by insulating the pipe to increase internal temps.

Is there a reason I should spend hundreds to get insulated pipe for the inside 18' length?

Thanks guys!

 

[bholler]

It will work much better with double wall but it also may be fine wit hsingle wall if you already have the single wall i would try it and see how it works if you are buying it i would just go for the double wall

 

[ccmac]

I like the single wall inside my house because you also get some heat off the pipe. Keeping the inside pipe at optimal temps is not really gonna be a challenge in my case. Getting the extra BTU's out of it is worth some chimney heat loss for me.

 

[Corey]

18ft inside and 5 ft outside, 23ft overall ... you're starting to get up in the range where people report having too much draft, making the stove hard to control. I'd definitely give it a shot without the insulated pipe first. I think you'll be fine. You'd hate to install the insulated pipe, only to find you have to go back and install a damper to help cut some of the draft down. Plus, 'clean' combustion happens in the firebox and due to good burning practices with dry wood, it's not really possible to keep the flue hot enough to burn out creosote all the way to the top.

 

[begreen]

Anything over an 8' interior run usually qualifies for going to double-wall connector. 18' is a definite double-wall candidate to keep flue gas cooling under control. If the flue gases cool too much the end result could be excessive creosote accumulation.

moving thread to main forum

 

[xman23]

I have about 8 ' of single wall, with heat shield on the back. And about another 12 ' of insulated. It works well. I to like the heat off the single wall. I think the experts here can better say this, but my understanding is the single wall is not concerned to be chimney. Only after it becomes insulated. :Hope I stated that correctly.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to give it a shot the way it is and see were I end up. I can always put a damper on it if the draft is too much. Thats not a big deal.

I'm on the roof in the winter anyway trying to keep the snow drifts down, so if I had to sweep it in Jan/Feb it would not be the end of the world.

 

[Highbeam]

I used 10 feet of single wall and then 9 feet of class A chimney for my NC30, all vertical. This is in my shop that is often cold so the heat losses from the single wall are high. I thought I would get fancy and use a fan blowing on the single wall to steal heat but soon found that it really did hurt draft too much and now I just cool the firebox. The NC30 is a pretty efficient non-cat, it doesn't seem to waste much heat up the flue unlike some other brands of non-cat. This means that preserving that heat in the flue is even more important.

Due to my long single wall run and cold temps, I am unable to damper this stove down as far as other owners report. I keep the damper quite a ways out all the time which doesn't seem to be as efficient as a mostly dampered down stove with secondaries doing all the work.

If I could go back, I would have used double wall. It's better pipe, it's stainless steel, it is much more expensive. Good news is that due to the short life span of single wall I will get the chance.

 

[Dix]

I have single wall currently on the 13, and I've noticed creosote build up at the cap (23 ' run straight up). Stove has been installed for 4 years, and always a witch to clean.

Going to double wall this summer, enough.

 

[BrotherBart]

When I see these discussions I think about my two flues. Both single wall liners in exterior chimneys. One 21' and the other 33' to to the sky. Don't see how that is much different than having single wall in the living space. Except that I don't get the heat from the pipe in the living space.

 

[Hardtopseadan]

I will add as has been said before.The stove is the heater
,not the pipe.

 

[Ski-Patroller]

For many years we ran a Garrison stove in our cabin. We had 12' of single wall inside, and 12' of insulated pipe in the attic and chase. It worked fine with the Garrison air tight stove. Two years ago we bought a Jotul Castine and had less satisfactory operations with it. We changed the interior pipe to Duravent Double wall; and the stove runs much better. The stove pipe still gives off quite a bit of heat but probably less than it did as a single wall. The stove drafts much better, especially on start up.

I guess I would say try it and see, but the draft will be better and the flue will be much cleaner with double wall inside.

 

[Woody Stover]

changed the interior pipe to Duravent Double wall; and the stove runs much better.

Wow. I would have thought 24' would draft well, even with some single-wall....and a Castine.

 

[Ski-Patroller]

Wow. I would have thought 24' would draft well, even with some single-wall....and a Castine.

Once the cabin was warmed up it was OK, but when we first got there and started a fire it was hard to generate good draft, and the flue would be pretty cold. Often we would be starting with a cabin and stove that were right around 32degs. Also the Garrison flue was 8" We downsized the interior pipe to 6" Duravent, but left the upper pipe, 8" metalbestos.

 

[blades]

Draft problem caused by the 8" portion.

 

[Ski-Patroller]

Draft problem caused by the 8" portion.

It may have contributed, but I still have 12' of 8" and it works fine. The main problem with oversize flues is that they take longer to heat up and probably run colder, especially if they are single wall. They actually have less resistance to the gas flow. I have an industrial draft calculator around some where and you could see on boilers and industrial furnaces that within reason increasing the diameter and height both improved the draft.

I think going to the Double Wall inside was the big improvement. Before doing that the flue would be very cold, until we got the house warmed up. Understand this was not just a cold stove, but also a cold house.

 

[Smoked]

When I see these discussions I think about my two flues. Both single wall liners in exterior chimneys. One 21' and the other 33' to to the sky. Don't see how that is much different than having single wall in the living space. Except that I don't get the heat from the pipe in the living space.

Bart, is the stove on the 33' flue the primary or secondary stove. I am doing a basement install that will be right at that length and am trying to decide between preinsulated or just going heavy flex. I am concerned with too much draft if I insulate and a bit more trouble with the install. It will be more of a secondary stove for the colder weather so if I don't insulate, I am worried about cleaning difficulties. It is a clay lined exterior masonry chimney and a pretty clean burning tube stove. How much trouble is your uninsulated 33 to clean?

 

[BrotherBart]

The draft in the 33' in the basement is insane. I say that I am worried about it sucking splits up into the pipe. I have a key damper on the pipe now. Insulated is best no question. Insulation isn't a draft thing it is a safety thing. With mine I could not only not get an insulated liner down it, I couldn't get a tee down it. And while I totally understand that at that point it is optimum to break out the flue tiles, I also realize somebody that does not want a wood stove but fireplaces might be the person I want to sell this house to someday.

So.... I gently pulled a 5.5" liner down the basement flue and gently turned it 90 degrees into the crock thimble and installed a Simpson thimble inside for the pipe connection.

To clean it I use a brush and rope from the top and pull it through it. Just like I do with the straight shot 21' one for the first floor stove.

 

[Smoked]

The draft in the 33' in the basement is insane. I say that I am worried about it sucking splits up into the pipe. I have a key damper on the pipe now. Insulated is best no question. Insulation isn't a draft thing it is a safety thing. With mine I could not only not get an insulated liner down it, I couldn't get a tee down it. And while I totally understand that at that point it is optimum to break out the flue tiles, I also realize somebody that does not want a wood stove but fireplaces might be the person I want to sell this house to someday.

So.... I gently pulled a 5.5" liner down the basement flue and gently turned it 90 degrees into the crock thimble and installed a Simpson thimble inside for the pipe connection.

To clean it I use a brush and rope from the top and pull it through it. Just like I do with the straight shot 21' one for the first floor stove.

I am wondering if I should do a 5.5 too. Then it would be easier to insulate. I do have an elbow but nothing like what you describe. I have an email into the mfg to see what they think about the 5.5. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[BrotherBart]

At that height whatever you do will draft like a Hoover.