I will be having someone install my Tarm soon. I have read and researched alot on this site... but alas... I am not a plumber. I like to know as much as I can about the system. I understand the reason to have the " dump zone" is to keep the tarm froom not overheating when the electricity goes out. The part I don't get is.. Do I have to have the 15 ft baseboard dump zone above the boiler in the basement?.. or can use the zone of baseboard tha will be on the first floor (above the tarm) in my cathedral living area ( about 30 ft of baseboard) as the dump zone?
Install soon help
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WoodNotOil
Minister of Fire
The dump zone has to flow via gravity when the electricity is out. If the baseboards are hooked up so that gravity will siphon the water up and back, then yes they could be used. Also, they must be sized to dump the correct amount of heat. I think it is 10% of Tarm output.
WoodNotOil
Minister of Fire
I am wondering if I can re-use things from my former radiant heating system. I ripped out all the tubes from under the joists. I have all the pumps... circs.. etc still there. I have no idea how these work.. just that they are still there. Can my installer use them to set up my Tarm?
Birdman said:
Yes, somethings can be re-used; if you were doing it yourself, you'd probably be able to re-use more. An installer may or may not want to be slowed down by mucking with old stuff. At whatever the hourly rate is, you may not want him mucking with it either...
Birdman- here's the basic quick and dirty summary of method to the madness for dump zones for wood boilers--
a 20th century fossil-fueled boiler, as most homeowners/ designers/ plumbers are used to, controls the overall heat output by turning the flow of fuel (gas or oil) on and off; the air (oxygen) goes along for the ride with the flow of the fossil fuel, in order to make the combustion happen. Oxygen/ air is basically abundant (thankfully, so we all can breathe
, thank the plants ) and so the whole thing is controlled by turning the fuel on and off, which can be done easily and rapidly.
a wood boiler, of any type, whether high efficiency (gasifier) or low efficiency (OWB or older wood boiler) represents a box full of fuel, surrounded by a water jacket, and then you try (with, sometimes, no small amount of effort and consternation) to control the oxygen for the combustion to regulate how hard/fast that box of wood fuel burns and belches heat into your desired areas to be heated. And all that air and oxygen, which we're all glad is abundant so that we can breathe and live, is hard to keep out of that big box of already-burning wood fuel.
then, with either heat source, you have your whole 'nuther system built to take heat from the fire to the living area; in 20th and 21st century heat systems, those depend on electrically-powered pumps and valves to move the heat, and those things shut off instantly when the power goes down.
with the 20th century boilers (gas or oil), when the power fails, the pumps and/ or valves feeding the fuel shut down, right away, and so the fire in the box goes out- FAST - there's no extra heat, or for very long. the pumps and motors that normally move the heat to the living space shut down, too, but it's no big deal, because the fuel source has simultaneously shut off
with the solid-fueled gasifiers, when the power goes out-- during a burn--, you've still got a box full of fuel, and, even if the electric blower supplying abundant lotso' air to the fuel shuts down from the power outage, you've still got a box of burning fuel that is in the middle of burning, and won't change its mind quickly-- and will pull air in via the air inlet and the draft of the chimney, even without the powered blower, so you need to give all that (substantial and longer-lasting) heat a safe place to go, so that the wood boiler can get a "soft landing" so that no spots within the boiler hit full boil, flash from water to steam, and create pressures that would rapidly wreck something.
with that in mind, there is, within relative reason, no such thing as "too big" a gravity flow dump zone.
you do not need to design for total overkill, but, subject to that basic sensibility, you do not need to worry about your fail-safe dump zone being "too big"
hope that helps
a 20th century fossil-fueled boiler, as most homeowners/ designers/ plumbers are used to, controls the overall heat output by turning the flow of fuel (gas or oil) on and off; the air (oxygen) goes along for the ride with the flow of the fossil fuel, in order to make the combustion happen. Oxygen/ air is basically abundant (thankfully, so we all can breathe
, thank the plants ) and so the whole thing is controlled by turning the fuel on and off, which can be done easily and rapidly.a wood boiler, of any type, whether high efficiency (gasifier) or low efficiency (OWB or older wood boiler) represents a box full of fuel, surrounded by a water jacket, and then you try (with, sometimes, no small amount of effort and consternation) to control the oxygen for the combustion to regulate how hard/fast that box of wood fuel burns and belches heat into your desired areas to be heated. And all that air and oxygen, which we're all glad is abundant so that we can breathe and live, is hard to keep out of that big box of already-burning wood fuel.
then, with either heat source, you have your whole 'nuther system built to take heat from the fire to the living area; in 20th and 21st century heat systems, those depend on electrically-powered pumps and valves to move the heat, and those things shut off instantly when the power goes down.
with the 20th century boilers (gas or oil), when the power fails, the pumps and/ or valves feeding the fuel shut down, right away, and so the fire in the box goes out- FAST - there's no extra heat, or for very long. the pumps and motors that normally move the heat to the living space shut down, too, but it's no big deal, because the fuel source has simultaneously shut off
with the solid-fueled gasifiers, when the power goes out-- during a burn--, you've still got a box full of fuel, and, even if the electric blower supplying abundant lotso' air to the fuel shuts down from the power outage, you've still got a box of burning fuel that is in the middle of burning, and won't change its mind quickly-- and will pull air in via the air inlet and the draft of the chimney, even without the powered blower, so you need to give all that (substantial and longer-lasting) heat a safe place to go, so that the wood boiler can get a "soft landing" so that no spots within the boiler hit full boil, flash from water to steam, and create pressures that would rapidly wreck something.
with that in mind, there is, within relative reason, no such thing as "too big" a gravity flow dump zone.
you do not need to design for total overkill, but, subject to that basic sensibility, you do not need to worry about your fail-safe dump zone being "too big"
hope that helps
That was helpful. Thank you. I have another question. Can they wire the tarm so I can run it off a generator... so if ( when ) the electricity goes out.. I can just keep the Tarm going? I am thinking this would be good if I am home... then I can stay warm... although I am thinking of moving my woodstove that heated my big cathedral ceiling living room.. into the basement as back up. SOme people are telling me.. just get rid of it.... the Tarm will be able to heat both the basement and the rest of my house. I have read about people hooking it up to a batteries as a back up electric idea... but i don't think i am there yet. I am hoping... if I am not home... the dump zone will work... then I can hook up to my generator to keep the tarm working that night? And how does that work? Like If I fall asleep and it is working off the generator and then the electricity comes back on while I am sleeping? can it switch back by itself to the original electrical system?....
Bad Wolf
Minister of Fire
Automatic transfer switches are expensive. The simplest way would be to take the single power run that goes to your furnace and circulator pumps. Cut it and wire on a male on the furnace side and female plug on the other and plug them back together. When your power goes out unplug the furnace and plug into a extenstion cord from your generator. If the power comes back on the furnace won't see it and will continue to run off your generator. The clock radio that you left on however will come back on and blast you out of bed so you can switch back over.
This would also be where you could plug into an inverter and battery system. It's all manual but should work. Thats how I'm going to set mine up. Just make sure that everything you need for heat comes off that one run.
Greg H
This would also be where you could plug into an inverter and battery system. It's all manual but should work. Thats how I'm going to set mine up. Just make sure that everything you need for heat comes off that one run.
Greg H
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