1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)

Installer Said Outside Air Kit Not Necessary?????

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Drew1024, Aug 3, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,244
    Loc:
    Connecticut
    i have an old door in my cellar.it needs a new gasket on the bottom of the door. if i remove the insulation from the bottom of the door the pellet stove seems to run better.it seems to have a better flame.thats why i like the idea of the outside air coming right into the stove instead of the stove working to pull air from where ever it can get it.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,244
    Loc:
    Connecticut
    here's the vent. i think its called ventilator??

    Attached Files:

  3. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,253
    Loc:
    Northwood, NH
    Some do, but you're still not going to get the heat being "washed" away, even at a continuous fan setting.

    There is a reason that all high-efficiency systems include outside air. It's not just there for fun. Sealed combustion improves efficiency and safety.

    Joe
  4. slls

    slls Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,457
    Loc:
    central maine Lat 45
    My neighbor had a new oil fired boiler installed 2 years ago, it required outside air.
  5. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,244
    Loc:
    Connecticut

    I think what joe is saying works.I will defiantly pay more attention this coming heating season on this.

    Thanks Joe
  6. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,244
    Loc:
    Connecticut


    Its better to blow cold air to the stove.why would it be so different to give the flame cold air?i understand hot air would be better but limited hot air might not be enough to get a good flame.
  7. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,253
    Loc:
    Northwood, NH
    Excess air from the room is the same as excess air from the outside. The small temperature difference is not a big deal. The fact that there is excess air is the big deal, but that exists regardless of whether you use indoor or outdoor air.

    There is a reason that all high-efficiency systems include outside air. It's not just there for fun. Sealed combustion improves efficiency and safety.

    Joe
  8. AlaskaCub

    AlaskaCub New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    70
    Loc:
    Interior Alaska
    I just got done installing a P68 in my house and was told by several people that I dont need a fresh air supply from th eoutside and after my first burn I disagree. I got a lot of smoke build up during initial start up and once the door to outside was opened the smoke quickly went up up and away. It did the same thing on shutdown of the first fire. So now I need to look into a fresh air kit that will work, as it appears to be quite the challenge to find something that fits from all the reading I have done on here.
  9. lcrumbau

    lcrumbau New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Loc:
    N Michigan
    I just hooked up my new US Stoves King Ashley 5500XL and it wasn't putting out much heat so I called USStoves. I told them I hadn't hooked up the outside fresh air intake yet and they told me NOT TO.

    This brings up some questions:
    Via web research I found a site that had said, that though it doesn't seem like these pellet stoves are drawing in a lot of air to burn that a typical pellet stove, running on medium can exchange every once of air in a 1,500 sq ft home in 12 - 14 hours. That's a lot of heat loss. (if it's true).

    My next question: Doesn't it take a lot hotter fire to heat 10-20 degree air from outside then to heat 65-70 air from inside. There to they stated that Colder air has more oxygen so the fire actually burns hotter with the outside air. Makes sense - if it's true.

    I read all those studies posted by someone above. Unfortunately they just talked about fume spillage. Does anyone have any links to actually studies that compare the rate a home heats when using outside air as opposed to inside air?

    Thanks
  10. Catfishjack

    Catfishjack Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    86
    Loc:
    Northern NY
    I have a new St Croix Stove ..direct vent straight out with a stove sentry / Marine Battery for power blackouts...no outside air vent..
    dealer said I didn't need one...
  11. rona

    rona Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    516
    Loc:
    southwestern Minn
    It seems this subject has been beat to death but in the simplest terms If your exhaust air goes outside the house then it is replaced either with outside air directly into the stove or by air leaking in around windows, doors or wherever they air can get in the house creating drafts. It is a much easier install job to tell you you don't need outside air then next season come back and offer to put it in for you for a price of course.
  12. pelletsrevil

    pelletsrevil New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5
    Loc:
    Lakeville,PA
    Hi everyone,new guy here! Iam in the same boat as the OP,I cannot get a single dealer to help me with an OAK. All of them in a 250 mile radius is telling me that an OAK is not needed. I bought my stove in 2005,that year we burned 4 tons by Christmas, running it up my chimney with the $1000.00 liner,had to take it out because of the pellet shortage. The next year we moved it to the first floor and burned every sigle bit of the 6 tons we bought for that year. Our home is a ranch,900 sq ft per floor,1800 total. I've talked to people who said it's impossible to burn that much,I've also talked to people who burned more than that.
    Before I throw in the towel and go to coal should I try an OAK,would it make difference?Not only that but in my installation instructions it reads that the air does not have to come from outside,just from a different room that has not been heated by the stove. Here is my question since no one will sell me an OAK. Can I just get some pvc pipe and run it down through the floor and into the basement and draw air that way to the intake?
    Yes I get a black window in about 48 hours after cleaning and lots of black on the side of the house.I have tried adjusting the intake damper to get a clean flame and IMO it is a bright strong flame with no visible smoke. I started the first year with Dry Creek pellets and after that Hamers Hot Ones with no better results.

    It is a St. Croix Afton Bay 30,000 btu stove. Pre install inspection the installer told me it would heat our ENTIRE home with 4 tons per year.LIAR.LIAR PANTS ON FIRE! Told us to put it in the basement and buy the liner. I will never trust anyone who works on commision again.

    Between the prices of pellets doubling just 3 months after we bought our stove,the amount of pellets it really takes to get through a winter we have found that we wound up with the same bill we had when we burned propane and that is what we did last year.$1779 for the stove and $1000.00 for liner and install. It would have been easier to flush that money into the toilet.

    Could all this frustration be avoided with an OAK?
  13. DiggerJim

    DiggerJim Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    497
    Loc:
    Northcentral Connecticut
    No. I'd say you're undersized with a 30K BTU stove for you installation (especially when it was in the basement). You mentioned throwing in the pellet towel and going to coal. I'd do that if I were you living in PA (heart of coal country :) ). Six tons of pellets is a lot. But I bet your stove was running high all the time. You can probably sell the pellet stove for near what you paid for it due to the current market and reuse the liner with the coal stove.
  14. AlaskaCub

    AlaskaCub New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    70
    Loc:
    Interior Alaska
    A follow up from my post above. I installed the fresh air intake and it has made a world of difference, my stove runs soo much better and I dont have any draft issues. Someone commented to me earlier that my house must be sealed tight, and it is, it was built in 2006 and is a 5 star +, you should have seen the problems I had with running a wood stove in this house before switching to the Pellet. Can you .....I hate the smell of smoke!
  15. pelletsrevil

    pelletsrevil New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5
    Loc:
    Lakeville,PA
    Digger,current market? There are pellet stoves for sale in the paper here with best offer writen next to the ad! The dealers here are no longer pushing pellet stoves,in fact they are telling people pellets are in short supply,expensive and no loger cost effecient to run and maintain. You want one $500.00 takes it,including the through the wall vent kit.I'll put it toward my coal stove.
  16. DiggerJim

    DiggerJim Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    497
    Loc:
    Northcentral Connecticut
    Up here we're still seeing people chasing all over for one. If you'll crate for shipping via a freight line, you could definitely get a good price for it - try eBay or Craigslist northeast editions for $2K delivered. The frieght will be under $200 anywhere in the Northeast so you'd pay for that and the stove if you're willing to go to the effort to crate it and get it to the frieght company. Heck - offer it up here and see if anyone wants it. There's a post everyday from someone looking to buy and needing help deciding and being limited to their local dealer's non-stock.
  17. woodsman23

    woodsman23 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,352
    Loc:
    western southern tier of NYS
    I have an Afton bay and it has performed flawlessly and heated my home to a comfy 73 degrees all winter. Also it's 40,000 btu unit not 30 as you stated above. You must have a drafty home if it is not heating or there is a problem with the stove itself. I used just under 4 tons all winter in the snow south of buffalo and i can't say enough good things about the afton bay. What year stove is yours? Do you use a t-stat? I use dry creek, lignetics. Again i have no problems heating a 1400sqft home with no basement. I get some buildup on the glass when on low and on a higher setting it get a mist of brown after 7 bags are burned.
  18. pelletsrevil

    pelletsrevil New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5
    Loc:
    Lakeville,PA
    That is another thing that got me mad,I bought it in 2005,they told me I was getting a deal on last years model. I look on the back while I'm moving it to the first floor and it is engraved 2003!
    I just checked it is a 30,000 btu St Criox Afton Bay with pedestal.Do you have an outside air kit on yours?
  19. woodsman23

    woodsman23 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,352
    Loc:
    western southern tier of NYS
    I do not have the OAK and i direct vent straight out the back 12" from the house wiyth a 45 at the end facing down. I do not have any issues with the stove it works almost to well. I saved over 1200 bucks last year alone not using propane. Maybe yours is a small btu output 30,000 is not enough to heat anything over 1000 sqft well insulated. I say sell it and buy a stove with more BTU's and you will be fine. St Croix makes a nice stove.
  20. MCPO

    MCPO Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,225
    Loc:
    western Ma , close to NY state border
    But the addition of a pellet stove really adds to the arguement in favor of the OAK .
    Envision a bath fan, dryer, oil furnace and a pellet stove and maybe even the kitchen exhaust fan all running at the same time? This is probably not an uncommon situation. In a house with borderline flue it could depressurize and pull in carbon Monoxide.
  21. Stihl029

    Stihl029 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    60
    Loc:
    Upstate NY
    Wouldn't one have to agree that if a home was built in 07 that its going to be very airtight, and in this situation, one would need outside air? I have a Englander 25, and I did install the outside air, because the use of the word mandatory in the manual made me Leary of not using it. I do have an airtight home I feel.

    In the cold of last winter (8 degrees) I had ice on the outside air intake pipe near the wall, but the stove seemed to be working fine. Nice HOT air flowing out of the stove. I think one would loose a bit of the efficiency when using outside air, but its also logical to say the difference is minimal. And couldn't it be said that by not using outside air in a home that's airtight, that the motors and fans have to work a bit harder to get the air moving because of vaccum? putting ones hand over the air intake pipe and you can notice that it does draw a good bit of air in a stove of this size. The air has to come from somewhere.
  22. insuranceman1

    insuranceman1 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Loc:
    MD
    I choose not to install the OAK on my stove. I have read and re-read the post and just can not seem to think that I need it. I live in a 2800 sq ft home with a attached 2 car garage. My home is very open and I have over 7 doors and (2) of them are double doors. I have attached a picture of where I installed my stove (red X), this room has a ceiling of about 18'. I really just don't think that this stove could be drawing in any air. There should be more than enough air for the stove to get in the home without drawing in any more. Maybe I am wrong. If I was putting this stove in a small home or a smaller room maybe. Am I wrong or do you guys think that I am Ok...

    Thanks!

    Attached Files:

  23. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,253
    Loc:
    Northwood, NH
    The stove must draw in air, since it is exhausting air. The air it is using must be replaced from somewhere. The only reason that the size of the house/room matters, is because the larger surface area of the structure means more cracks and crevices for it to pull air through.

    Joe
  24. imacman

    imacman Guest

    My question is: How old is your house? If it's fairly new, it was probably built to be pretty airtight. If so, an OAK would be a good thing to add.....the stove won't be able to make the inside of the house a negative pressure area. The stove would run better, plus your not trying to pull air from other areas of the house (like the heating system in the basement which includes CO).

    My 2 cents.

    Oh, and BTW, I guess your not putting the Christmas tree in the same spot this year.... :lol:
  25. insuranceman1

    insuranceman1 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Loc:
    MD
    Wife is going to have to find a new spot for the tree! :) :lol:

    My house was built in 1994. I understand that the air the stove is using has to be replaced. Every pellet stove that I have seen around me doesn't have the OAK. My stove puts off great heat. The OAK is a cheap enough and easy install if I decided to do it...just am not sure if it would be worth it. Also wouldn't this increase the chance of rust on the inside stove, from moisture? Thanks for all of the explanations.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page