Insulate or not

[Brandonahs01]

I have a external chimney it's about 13 ft long about 4' x 3'. Has a layer of cinder block and a outside layer of brick. A 10x10 clay flue. I do plan on putting a liner but I need to use 8". I worred that using the insulating wrap around the flex liner it won't fit. The question is with the chimney being as thick as it is and as short. Do I really need to insulate. What exactly are the benefits of wrapping and not. Is the extra $400 for the wrap really make that big of a difference. Thanks

 

[begreen]

Wondering if you can get away with 7" so that it can be insulated. What stove is this for?

 

[Hogwildz]

Yes, insulate. More masonry is only more of a heatsink

 

[Woody Stover]

Yep. Insulation will help with draw on a short stack, especially in fall and spring when it's not all that cold out.

Wondering if you can get away with 7" so that it can be insulated. What stove is this for?

Important to know this, as some stoves draw easier than others. If your particular model is a little picky about draft, it may not work as well on 7", and may need the added draft that insulation would provide.

 

[bholler]

Yes insulate. is that 10x10 inside? that is a very odd dimension I have never seen before but if it is 10 x 10 a wrapped 8" should fit fine.

 

[Brandonahs01]

The stove is a older Appalachian 32. Yes 10x10 is the inside. From what I have found that with the insulation will add a 1.5 to the diameter I'm just afraid that it will be so tight I have trouble getting it threw the flue and connecting it. The data plate on the back said chimney connection must be 8" and should I add a pice of pipe to the top of my chimney to get a couple more feet to help with draft?

 

[kennyp2339]

What stove are you planning to run that needs a 8" chimney? Most stoves require a 6" unless your going with something larger than 3.5 cu ft. The chimney is a little on the shorter side of things, you may be able to squeak by fine but be advised that your in the danger area of height vs draft. If your doing a simple free standing stove try to limit the number of 90's, if your attaching to a thimble use (2) 45's instead (black pipe) that might save you some headaches later on. If its a insert try to give the chimney as much of a straight shot as possible, even if that means cutting the existing damper, chipping a few bricks from the smoke shelf.

 

[kennyp2339]

The data plate on the back said chimney connection must be 8"

1st of all talk about being on the same waive length for posting times lol, as far as reducing the liner size to 7" and insulating Begreen is the man when it comes to that kind of stuff. I would also plan on buying masonry anchor plate for an additional 3ft section of class A pipe to extend the flue regardless of what size once its determined.
*Personally I would hope that a 7" liner would work for you, because if you become a woodstove addict (like us) you may want to upgrade to a more efficient stove in the near future, again most new stoves require a 6" liner, but you can prob run a new epa cert stove with a 7" vs a 8".

 

[Brandonahs01]

I'm looking at buying this so I won't have to use any 45s or 90s. The fire place was never finished so there isn't a dampener or a smoke shelf. I'm hoping to come straight of the flew and with a slight angle connect to the stove.

 

[Brandonahs01]

If I could use 6" wold be wonderful because it substantially cheaper but I just don't think it will be possible with this stove. I will be for sure insulating now because of the short stack. But this brings back what size liner to oder. How do I find out

 

[kennyp2339]

If I could use 6" wold be wonderful because it substantially cheaper but I just don't think it will be possible with this stove. I will be for sure insulating now because of the short stack. But this brings back what size liner to oder. How do I find out

Wait for begreen to wake up lol, he's on the west coast so he has a few more hours of sleep, try PMing him. Also Bhollar is good to, he's a pro installer and has tons of experience, never gives bad advice either.

 

[Woody Stover]

Yes insulate. is that 10x10 inside? that is a very odd dimension I have never seen before but if it is 10 x 10 a wrapped 8" should fit fine.

Yeah, if you have a straight shot the 8" should fit with 1/2" insulation and maybe a 15* or 30* elbow at the bottom. Get the elbow made by the mfgr. of the liner, so you're sure it's gonna work with that liner.
Ideally, you could just go ahead and upgrade to a modern (early '90s or newer) stove so you could burn cleaner (which also means a cleaner, safer chimney) and use less wood, but it kinda sounds like that may not be in the cards right now...

 

[Brandonahs01]

Yeah I got this stove for a little bit of nothing. I would have loved to bought something new but shelling out 2k for a quality stove plus a liner little out of my reach right now. Just has me wondering is it worth my time and effort to even install or try to sale and go down a different path. As far of the year of this stove I can't rally tale someone told me it was made in 96. Then I've also been told late 80s. Who knows.

 

[Woody Stover]

Yeah, it might be wiser to install a 6" chimney which is what 95% of all stoves use. Then you could maybe stumble upon a good deal on a used stove in good shape, or go with a new "value stove" like and Englander Madison or something, for under 1K.

 

[Woody Stover]

How many sq.ft. are you wanting to heat? Open layout? Decent insulation and air-sealing?

 

[Brandonahs01]

How many sq.ft. are you wanting to heat? Open layout? Decent insulation and air-sealing?

Yes very open lay out. Not sealed like it probably should be but not too bad house was built in 72. Just really stuck between a rock and an a hard place. I only have 200 bucks in this thing as of now. Add the liner I'll have 1000 in everything. I really don't want to throw any money at a cheaper stove rather just save it and buy a better quality one. Im not really trying to heat the whole house but would be nice just manly trying to cut down on the gas a bit and trying to do it safley. Does anyone have any experience with one of theses stoves?? I also see that some people prefer a pre EPA stove over the new ones. I would like to achieve decent burn times wood consumption isn't a huge worrie I have pretty good supply of free wood I just have to put in the work. I have looked at the buck 74 with the blower the stove would cost around 1700 plus 500 for a liner. So having 2300 in a new stove or 1100 in the one I got. Just trying to weigh my options.

 

[Hogwildz]

how does 1/2" insulation add 1-1/2" to diameter, other than maybe at the overlap?

 

[begreen]

Another option might be to install a preinsulated liner. 8" Duraliner for example is 8 5/8" OD.

 

[Hogwildz]

BG makes a good point. I used the 6" Durliner insulated rigid, and I love it. No fuss, no muss. Easy to clean.

 

[Brandonahs01]

The one I was looking at is the fireside pre insulated 8" liner. There is a highlighted not that says adds 1 1/2 to diameter of liner

 

[bcrtops]

Check the price difference between an 8" & a 6" stack. Apply the difference to a new EPA stove. That amount will help pay for a new Home Depot or Lowes unit.

(That is part of the logic we used back '08 when I finally got around to upgrading my lousy triple wall chimney. The cost difference of dropping down to a good quality 6" from the 8" the old dbl. door Fisher needed, paid for 1/2 the price of a new EPA stove. We have NEVER been sorry.) Of course, liners are cheaper than the chimney pieces, but similar principle applies. You ever plan on putting in a newer stove -- have to replace liner to 6" then = more cost.

I vote for an upgrade -- save your money until you can do it! You'll never be sorry.

 

[Hogwildz]

The one I was looking at is the fireside pre insulated 8" liner. There is a highlighted not that says adds 1 1/2 to diameter of liner

Ah okay, looks like pre-insualted rigid. I thought you were talking about flex with added outer insulation blanket.

 

[begreen]

Agreeing with blades. Another option is a new insert with a 6" insulated liner. The Century 2500W, True North TN20, Heatilator Wins18, Englander 13NCi, Drolet Escape 1800i are affordable inserts. They also qualify for a $300 tax credit until the end of this year.

 

[Woody Stover]

don't want to throw any money at a cheaper stove rather just save it and buy a better quality one. Im not really trying to heat the whole house but would be nice just manly trying to cut down on the gas a bit and trying to do it safley.

Another vote for an upgrade now. Unless you have big sq.ft. to heat, going to 6" chimney now is the way to go, looking toward lower cost now and versatility in the future. I think the rigid pipe is cheaper, if you have a straight shot. The Buck 74 seems to be well-liked but it sounds like the blower on high will be like my 91, a bit loud. It's not bad on low, or maybe you could add a motor speed controller and run it slower...you'll have to research that in other threads here. Although they won't be as heavy-duty as the Buck (did I say I like my Buck?) ...don't write off all the value stoves as cheap junk. You have to look at them and compare them, since there are differences. Me, I might be inclined to go with the Buck, or possibly an Enerzone or other mid-grade alternative.
If you're like many folks here, you may start out with the idea of just supplementing your heating needs, but end up enjoying heating with wood and wanting to never hear the furnace come on. I have no backup heat for our 1000 sq.ft. home, so you know where I'm at...if it's cold out, stove is running! With a ballpark sq.ft. figure, people can suggest a stove size that will cover you in any heating scenario.

I also see that some people prefer a pre EPA stove over the new ones. I would like to achieve decent burn times

That's another reason to upgrade now: Burn times will be better, and you can run clean and run low with an EPA stove. You'll want to run lower in spring and fall, so you don't roast yourself out. The temptation with an old stove is to cut the air way down, in an effort to get an overnight burn. But the old stoves have to be run hot to burn somewhat clean, so running low you end up with a lot of creosote and the danger of a chimney fire, or at least the inconvenience of having to brush the chimney much more often.

I have looked at the buck 74 with the blower the stove would cost around 1700 plus 500 for a liner. So having 2300 in a new stove or 1100 in the one I got. Just trying to weigh my options.

You're not really into it for much at this point. To me, it's a no-brainer; Spend a little more now, but be all set going forward with a 6" liner, cut your wood usage substantially and have the peace of mind of a stove and chimney. And as begreen pointed out, there's a $300 federal tax rebate for buying a qualifying new stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

You are going to want an easy-breathing stove with your relatively short stack, although with rigid liner it would be easy to add a few feet to the top...