Insurance Company requires Professional Install for New Wood Stove

[Evil Dave]

We are watching the clock tick on the expiration of the Fed Tax Credit and are about to purchase a wood burning stove. I asked our insurance agent about the impact a new woodburning stove would have on our current policy. At first I was told our current company wouldn't insure us if we added a stove, but she would check to make sure what our options would be, up to and including switching companies if needed. The following day she called me back with her findings. Our current company allows the installation of a wood stove as a secondary/backup heat source if we meet 2 requirements.
1) The stove must be professionally installed. I can not do it.
2) Following the professional installation, an insurance company rep must come to our house and document the installation and get copies of all pertinent info on the installed products.

On the bright side, there would not be any increase in our current premium, no permits or fire marshall inspections are required.
This could have been worse, it could have been better too, but at least I know what I need to keep everyone involved in providing my home insurance happy.

This was OK . . . . until the Fireview from Woodstock made the short list for our selection. Hmmm no local rep to install the stove.

Based on some of the threads I have dug up, there have been other interesting insurance co. discussions, but I didn't find any circumstance quite like mine. Has anyone else dealt with this requirement?

It's not a problem if we buy something local and pay for the local rep to put their product in, but will they install a 3rd party stove without charging a huge premium? The chimney sweep (who is comming on Friday to clean and inspect our lined masonry chimney) may be willing to come back out and sell me the required stove pipe connections and install those for me, would that count as a professional installation if he checks out the new hearth pad and stove placement when he connects everything. I guess I won't know till I start asking. I thought I would ask for insight here first.

I haven't mentioned it to the local shops because we haven't really decided on the Fireview but it is certainly a factor against choosing the factory direct approach.

 

[begreen]

Check references and recommendations for a local WETT certified chimney sweep to do the installation. That should satisfy the insurance requirements if the Fireview is the choice.

 

[nate379]

Was the same for me. Cost me $950 for install. They were done in about 3.5hrs, so I suppose they made pretty damn good money. BUT, they did a great job and honestly in 3.5hrs I would have still have been cutting a hole in the roof.

 

[soupy1957]

Our total package cost for installation was around $5K, if you include the wood, the labor, the equipment, etc.....

We just naturally WANTED a "Professional" install, because of the inherent dangers involved in the use of this tool, and the need for a "proper" install.

As for Woodstock, I just received a brochure from them a couple of days ago. I like the Equinox, and in hindsight, I wish it was on our radar at the time. I would like a deeper firebox so that I can use 18" logs in a true N/S layout, rather than NW/SE & NE/SW as we currently have to do. I know I can get my splits cut to 16" long NEXT year, but that's after I have exhausted my 3 cords of 18" splits. As for "Woodstock," .....since they are only North of me by a reasonably reachable distance, I'd push them to get their own butts down here, and do the install. If they refused, I'd hope there was a dealer close to me that handled their products.
If not, I'd consider another brand of stove, (frankly).

We found out that we needed a Permit to HAVE it installed, and then, after the Inspection by an overseer from the company that did the install, the Town Inspector had to come out and do his OWN "Inspection" of the install.

We called the Insurance company prior to the install, and they sent out a form to be filled out. I don't remember which one, but one of the questions on their form I wasn't sure how to answer, and I called them. In the course of the conversation, I mentioned that it was a "professional" organization that would be doing the install, and they said, "oh, that's another matter! If it is a Professional group that is doing the install, you won't need to complete the form. We'll just put it into your policy right away."

Fast Forward: On a follow up with the Insurance company only yesterday, I decided to explore the notion that if I had a signed document from a Chimney Sweep that stated that he had come out and found things in good order, that perhaps the Insurance company might grant us some sort of discount for proper maintenance, and a "good report card" as it were. No such "discount" was apparently available. That's not to say that some OTHER Insurance company doesn't offer them, but mine doesn't.

I find great comfort in knowing that the install was "professionally" done, and that I can get a "professional" to clean it and certify it. I will sleep much better on those cold winter nights, in the warmth of our stove, knowing that. My only concern going forward, is that I have many years with this current system.

-Soupy1957

 

[pen]

I would switch insurance companies.

No reason why you shouldn't be able to install the stove yourself and then have it simply inspected by a professional. They should NOT demand that the work be done by one. Inspected is inspected. It doesn't matter who does the work.

Hell, I installed a new stove, lined my chimney, put a new roof, siding, door and built a 1000 sq foot garage this year, started finishing my basement, etc,etc. All they asked me was "was local code followed" "would I mind if they came and looked at it" "How much would I like to increase my policy coverage." They sent me the paperwork showing my increased coverages and what I owed. They have never been out to check out the house. In fact, they never even looked at it when I purchased the home! I am with Travelers.

Definitely time to go shopping IMO as I would have been quite insulated considering the things I have fixed around my home that were screwed up by professionals.


pen

 

[nate379]

I could have installes myself but it would have been same price for them to sign off on it vs them doing it.

I have enough stuff going on right now between 2 jobs, chore and personal projects if I did it myself it would have probably been next June when I got it in.

 

[pen]

I could have installes myself but it would have been same price for them to sign off on it vs them doing it.

I have enough stuff going on right now between 2 jobs, chore and personal projects if I did it myself it would have probably been next June when I got it in.

Oh I certainly understand how getting busy is! I'm not knocking you at all for hiring someone to do it, my point is I think it is TOTAL BS that they are requiring it.

pen

 

[jakehunter]

My insurance company has requested that a stove be installed by a pro as well.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

If, for whatever reason, you can't do the install yourself, well, that's life. You do what has to be done, and enjoy life as much as you can.

But, if you feel you can, and want to do it yourself, then I think you should, and if your insurance company has a problem with it, then maybe you should shop it around. My insurance had no problem with a wood stove or my installing it. My agent asked me to send her a picture, that was all. The actual install just isn't all that big of a deal, follow the requirements in the manual for the stove and chimney.

 

[albertj03]

My insurance company required that my stove either be installed by a licensed installer or inspected by either the fire department or a licensed inspector. I had the fire department come over and they gave me a courtsey inspection paper saying that all of the proper codes and clearances were met. They did make me move the fuel line from the oil tank to the furnace because they thought it was to close to the stove. The plumber who did it said it was the most ridiculous thing he had ever heard but I figured I was better safe than sorry.

 

[zzr7ky]

Hi -

I also spoke with my insurance company. Professional install, then once I asked for the primary broker he said "...unless you're pulling a permit and getting an inspector to sign off". The inspector said it was the nicest install he had seen. I plugged the Hearth site here incase he had questions in the future.

The insurance folks may not get this question every day, especially in semi urban areas.

My NEW insurance company said if the stove was installed to code it's not interesting to them, no different than the gas furnace or other appliance. : )

ATB,
Mike P

 

[DAKSY]

Check references and recommendations for a local WETT certified chimney sweep to do the installation. That should satisfy the insurance requirements if the Fireview is the choice.

You can also check for locally NFPI certified specialists. You might get one of them to give you a better price.

 

[Evil Dave]

I think the 3rd party requirement goes beyond having it done right or even inspected and approved. I don't know this for sure, but I think they want someone to take on the liability if there is ever a claim involving the woodstove. Somebody they could "go after" as a 3rd party . . . I hope that isn't the case, but it sure seems that way to me. If they are really that concerned I can't believe they didn't jack up my premium as well. I don't know what liability if any comes with an installation, especially one that involves only setting a new stove and installing a few sticks of stove pipe into an existing chimney. I guess that is why everyone but me has a darn lawyer.

 

[firefighterjake]

See if having a chimney sweep do the install would work . . . I suspect that while they may want to have a "fall guy" in case something happens and they decide to go after some money, they also want to make sure you're not installing the stove 3 inches from the wall just because it looks better . . . not using a large cookie sheet for floor protection . . . or duct taping the chimney pipe together instead of using screws to hold it together.

The fact that you're here probably says that you are the type of person to do things right and do them to code . . . sad to say that isn't always the case . . . I've seen too many people take shortcuts, not read the manual or just do their own thing because it "looks better" or "works" for them instead of installing something the right way. The things that are out there would scare you . . . sometimes it is just a "small" thing like a missing screw or two in the pipe . . . and sometimes it is scary crazy like a long horizontal run going through one interior wall (with no pass through device), out the exterior wall and up the house -- all single wall pipe and being supported with wire and a bottle jack holding up a 2 x 4 to support the base.

Folks who actually take the time to check with their town or insurance company incidentally usually aren't the ones we really worry about -- it's the folks who do their own thing and we run across them after the fire . . . that said . . . I know there are some folks who do their own thing and have done safe installs . . . and we don't know or hear from them.

So as for what to do . . . in my own case the insurance company (Travelers) was good . . . they asked that a professional install it and that the local fire department inspect it (which my fire department in town does for free) and then I just had to fill out a checklist asking about smoke detectors, distance from combustibles, etc. No increase in the premium . . . which was nice.

Me . . . I would see about hiring the sweep to do the install and if that would suffice. If you're happy with the insurance company, paying someone to do the install is not necessarily a bad thing . . .

 

[allhandsworking]

I have read a lot about professional installs done not so professional! Almost every job I have done to my house by a " professional" has been botched! You need to watch them! Sorry I'm pretty handy but when I don't have time to do it myself I hire and usually get screwed! I'm sure there are lots of good craftsmen out there but it's good to know what needs to be done! Knowledge is power!

 

[pen]

I have read a lot about professional installs done not so professional! Almost every job I have done to my house by a " professional" has been botched! You need to watch them! Sorry I'm pretty handy but when I don't have time to do it myself I hire and usually get screwed! I'm sure there are lots of good craftsmen out there but it's good to know what needs to be done! Knowledge is power!

my sentiments exactly.

What's the difference between my work being inspected and a professional's being inspected?

This idea of wanting a scapegoat is sickening. If it passes an inspection then it should mean the person did the job correctly. Any problem after that must the result of some unforseen circumstance (AKA an accident).

pen

 

[Evil Dave]

It looks like the local Chimney Sweep that will be doing my cleaning/chimney inspection tomorrow will be willing to sell me the required stove pipe and do the stove install if I provide him with all of the stove specs, once we have picked one. I hope it's really that simple, but somehow I am still dreading it.

 

[rustynut]

allhandsworking,
+1
rn

 

[70marlin]

Same here the insurance company wanted a license, bonded and insured installer to do the install. My insurance rep said they needed someone to sue if the place burnt?

 

[jeff_t]

State Farm came out and took one picture, and some measurements for clearance. She then took the manual back to the office, made a copy, and mailed it back. I pay an extra $5 annually.

 

[pen]

This professional installation thing is really bugging me. What if you BUY a home w/ a wood stove? For them to insure this home that is new to you do you have to prove that it was installed professionally 20 years prior by the previous owner? Of course not! So if there is a way to insure a person in this circumstance (aka an inspection) than the same should be the case for a new installation.

Man I hate when they try to pull this junk. I can't tell you how fast I'd pull my business just at the hint of this based on principle, even if I was planning on having it prof installed.

What a crock.

pen

 

[Dakotas Dad]

This professional installation thing is really bugging me. What if you BUY a home w/ a wood stove? For them to insure this home that is new to you do you have to prove that it was installed professionally 20 years prior by the previous owner? Of course not! So if there is a way to insure a person in this circumstance (aka an inspection) than the same should be the case for a new installation.
pen

If you are buying a home, with a wood stove already installed, they (insurance provider) will either inspect it themselves, or have it proffesionaly inspected (on your dime) before binding coverage. Normal for any home purchase. Happens all the time around here.

There are sweeps around here that do more of these type inspections then actually "sweeping".

 

[pen]

This professional installation thing is really bugging me. What if you BUY a home w/ a wood stove? For them to insure this home that is new to you do you have to prove that it was installed professionally 20 years prior by the previous owner? Of course not! So if there is a way to insure a person in this circumstance (aka an inspection) than the same should be the case for a new installation.
pen

If you are buying a home, with a wood stove already installed, they (insurance provider) will either inspect it themselves, or have it proffesionaly inspected (on your dime) before binding coverage. Normal for any home purchase. Happens all the time around here.

There are sweeps around here that do more of these type inspections then actually "sweeping".

my point exactly! So why can't the homeowner install the stove themselves and have the same guy come and check it out in their existing home? Why need a professional now? As long as it inspects OK when you purchase then nobody cares who did the work prior. I see no reason for it to be any different for an existing customer and homewoner.

pen

 

[Gazerbeam]

My insurance company (Allstate) told me it would raise the total value of my property by about $10,000 (how they came up with that value I have no idea, she just hit the zero clearance fireplace option on her computer) and so it would cost me $7.94 more a year to insure it. She told me no inspection is required by the insurance company, simply call them up after its been installed and they'll add it to my policy.

Where I live, there is no inspection required by the city or county. This is per the owner of the place that has been selling all the fireplaces/stoves in town since the 1940s.

 

[Bobbin]

We are insured by Amica. When we inquired about installing the Fireview in '91, they required a copy of the town ordinance for woodstove installation and that our installation was inspected and signed by code enforcement. No problem, at all. The good man and his brother did the installation in our newly constructed home, meeting all code requirements and assiduously following the clearances specified by The Woodstock Soapstone Stove Co.. When it comes to safety, we don't screw around in this household. To do so is dumb!

2007: called Amica to ask about the installation of the Classic. Same drill... stove was installed by the good man and your's truly. No increase in premium in either case; I suspect the fact that the stoves are EPA and we happily fulfilled all requirements counted for something; along with the fact that we've been with them for over 20 yrs. now.

Start shopping for a new insurance carrier! (we have the chimney swept regularly and have the receipt at the ready should we ever be required to produce proof of the work; but this is common sense for a household that uses and understands wood heat).