Introduction and a whole pile of saw questions

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coug2wolfs

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Sep 14, 2008
7
Before someone asks Who the Hang is Coug I thought I'd get the jump on you. My wood "career" started at a very early age. Mom & Dad bought an old farmhouse and my bedroom was upstairs. Back in those days insulation was not a big thing. In the winter if the wind blew, I'd have little snowpiles on my blankets in the morning from where it snuck through the cracks in the wall boards. The bed was nice and warm, but when the covers flew off those little feet barely touched the floor all the way down the stairs! At 4 years old I was setting in the newspaper, laying on the kindling, and in short order had the Glenwood heating the whole downstairs. The woodbox was close by and always full of well seasoned hardwood and I fed the stove to get the coveted bed of coals going. As soon as it warmed up I got the old percolator coffee pot churning. By the time Mom & Dad got up it was toasty warm. We'd make plans for what we were going to do that day. So long as it had to do with wood I was a happy little camper.

I was some this side of five when I convinced Dad that it was time to have my own splitting axe. It only made sense, two guys could split the wood in half the time. I tried his axe and it was to long. He cut down the handle on a spare axe and I was much better with that one. He taught me where to hit, where not to, which knots would give, which ones wouldn't. He showed me how to hone the axe so it would split but not stick. I can remember it all like it was yesterday, the smells, the smiles, the fun.

It was some time later before I even took notice of the chainsaw. Dad always did that part of the wood. The first time I tried to pick up his saw I thought he played a trick on me and nailed it to the stump! Lord but that humper was some heavy. Later in the game I bought a Sears saw, high tech with a barracuda chain. Why this critter even sharpened its own chain! Sounded good. And it was an aggressive cutting saw. But the boys who designed it missed a chapter or two as I snapped the crankshaft in less than a week! We brought it back to Sears and they happily replaced it. That saw didn't make 3 days. Once more back to Sears, and left with the 3rd saw. Dead in one day. We called it quits and went to a saw shop. Left there with one of the yellow ones, a McCullogh (sp?) I cut a LOT of wood with that saw, but it was slow and heavy.

Time went by and I grew up, joined the Army, did a tour in the "Sunny Country", got married, started carving out a life for me and the family. It didn't take long to get back to the woodpile as the oil just wouldn't give the warmth of the wood. Of course much changed in the saw world in that time and I found and fell in love with a 621 and Jonsered 80. I used the 80 for stumping and bucking up the bigger stuff, the 621 for the smaller stuff. I'm pretty sure it was a 621 but don't hold me to it, that was some time ago. But I am sure on the 80. I wore both those saws out and had no complaints with either.

Of course human nature being what it is I looked at Stihl next. Came out of the saw shop with an 066. Down in the "Flats" grapple loads were easy to come by, an 8 to 10 cord load went $400 back then. Dad got one and I had one dumped in Temple. We'd get together to buck up the logs on the weekends and it was like old times but even better. We didn't have to stump it and haul it, it was already in one big pile. It was just pure cutting and splitting! He was scared in a big way of that Stihl saw after trying it just once. "Too danged big, too danged heavy, and WAY overpowered for cutting wood!" But he's squeal with glee when I lit that brute off on a log as I'd reach out and tear into the log and the saw would pull me right into the wood! A couple of times I went for the high log and it would pull me right off the ground! He liked that even better. Anybody that runs a 066 knows that it don't take much time at all to eat through a grapple load with one of those critters.........(continued)
 
Now I know I blab too much...couldn't fit it in one!

For a good number of years I ran Stihls and swore by them. But then Husky started to make inroads and curiosity got the better of me, so I bought a 570 and a 350. I never did warm up to the 570 as it was heavy and just didn't feel right to me. I still own that original 350 and she's still running strong. In between I horse traded my Brother in Law an old duck gun for his 028 Stihl Woodboss. Now the BIL is some brutal on equipment. He left the saw in a shed for better than 5 years with old gas in it. I figured I'd end up bringing it to the saw shop to get it going again. Two pulls on the rope and she was purring! I still have that one too, and that saw has to be at least 25 years old! I think since then Stihl has slimmed down the bars as the new 20 inch bar I just put on it binds right up tight when you tighten the side plate as the tang line is INSIDE the plate line. I got around this by shimming both sides of the bar inside the tang line but this is only a Band-Aid. Anybody shed any light on this? I also muckled onto a 345e Husky and am impressed by the narrow kerf pixel chain.

Right now I'm some fearsome confused. I'm in the market for a new saw and we have x torque, intelli carbs, xp, and a host of other gizmos like tool less chain adjusters and a host of other gadgets. I'm right now where Dad was when I had the 066 Stihl. At 60 years old I just plain don't want to, or need to swing an 066 weight saw, nor do I think I need that much power even on the BIG timber I have here. Big defined as a 25 inch bar is needed to get through the back cut without going in on both sides. That's red and white oaks, maple, birch, ash, and beech, all the good stuff.

I was settled on the 357 Husky but the Husk Rep says 575XP. The Stihl Rep says 390 or 361 and up. Do I need that much saw? I hate a saw that dies in a cut so maybeso I do need the power. I'm not locked in on Husky or Stihl as both have done well by me, though I'd say a Stihl will last longer, and a Husky throws chips a lot better IMHO. It may be in the chains, but I'd say in my experience that a Husky cuts faster. I cut between 16 and 20 cords a year so I'm not running a saw all year, but when I do cut I'm cutting serious. Your thoughts and recommendations.

As far as splitting, I have a 28 ton log splitter, and, I don't use it. I hate the thing. Maybe it goes back to my first axe, maybe it goes back to splitting with my Father. I split 16 cords this year with a couple of mauls and a Stihl splitting axe. Sure, there were a few logs that wouldn't give up the ghost, and yes, I could have put the wedges and hammer to them, but why? I have the Sweetheart in the kitchen, the Vermont Casting in the cellar, and the fireplace. Any that don't want to split go in the fireplace pile. Out of 16 cords maybe a quarter cord made the fireplace pile. Those knots will burn all night!

While we're on splitting, anyone have thoughts to share on Gransfor Bruk and Oxhead?

Well folks, I've sputtered much, can't wait to hear from you good folks.

Coug
 
go to arboristsite.com also Some real hard core enthusiasts, and professionals too.

Sounds like you are wanting a really good saw, not so much the mid range hownomer or firewood stuff.

You will get these votes
limbing, stuff up to 10 inches or so, the 026, Husky 346, or Dolmar 5100. High speed, light and nimble to use. I have an 026 and love it, but it is older design and a bit outdated. Tehcnology moves upwards.

bucking: MS361 sort of the king in the one saw only, firewood 60 cc class,
in the 75 cc range, STihl 046, Husky 372, Dolmar 7900


My personal bias is not one universal saw, but one for light weight and speed, lot of 026 usage for me. and teh 7900 for the bigger stuff. That is a lot of saw for anything in these parts.

kcj
 
It seems like you plan on keeping the new saw for quite a while. There are a lot of good saws out there. It may be wise to consider which has the better dealer support for down the road. There is a thread on this forum - perhaps just a rumor - that Husky may be drifiting away from dealers and going towards consumer saws for "big box" stores. I hope this is false but perhaps it needs cheked out.

I don't know enough to work on small engins so dealer support is important to me. I have good Husky and a good Sthil dealers in the area. The Sthil dealer is closer to home and has free coffee.

I agree with kevin j about the various saws and various usages. arboristsite.com needs to be on yours and my list of research resources.
 
Nice post Coug- good reading!

We had a thread on the Gransfors maul last week. I've had one for 5 years and I love it. Worth every penny to me. Check out the thread here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/22926/

As for the saw- I agree with the previous poster- if you have bothl Stihl and Husky dealers local, go with the better dealer. If you can fix a saw on your own this probably isn't as a big a deal. As for a good all-around saw that's capable- the Stihl 361 can't be beat in my book. I sold my other saws and use the 361 for everything.

Josh
 
Welcome Coug I'd go with either dealer recommendation just make sure you tell 'em you want a pro saw...not a big box store saw. I'm pretty sure sometime in 2010-12 EPA will regulate emissions in saws...and we wont consider that to be an improvement. I've been thinking of squirreling away a few new saws for just in case or for investment purposes.

As far as your worry of having all that power do I need it? Well my 272xp is like that too and 90% of the time I'm cutting with half trigger and I like bucking that way with a lot of reserve power. I'm about your age and use a 20" and 16" saw....sometimes just using a smaller bar on your favorite 'go to' makes all the difference in the world ...

... but I didn't understand if you needed a 25" bar or not. Cause if you have to use a 25" bar there's no getting around the need for a pro saw to power it If you don't need the 25 try an 18" and you'll be amazed in the ease of handling.
 
All good suggestions above.

I am a little tainted in my suggestion so take this with a grain of salt. Want something lighter than an 066, want something that will run a 25" bar on occasion, want something with speed and won't stall in a cut, want something that will reliably run for years to come.

No brainer - Stihl MS361. And no, I have no affiliation, or monetary motivation to make this suggestion. Just a very satisfied owner.

Oh, and welcome to the site.
 
sl7vk said:
Dolmar 7900.

Easy answer.

Domar 7900 - weight = 20.8 pounds

Thats a long ways from wanting to "go to a lighter saw"
 
Jags said:
sl7vk said:
Dolmar 7900.

Easy answer.

Domar 7900 - weight = 20.8 pounds

Thats a long ways from wanting to "go to a lighter saw"

Dolmar 7900 Dry weight 13.6 lbs
Stihl 361 Dry weight 12.3 lbs.

1.3 pounds in this case buys you 20 extra cc, 2 extra horses, and the ability to turn a 32 inch bar if you'd like. And I imagine that they are right about the same price.

It is lighter then the 575xp, has more horesepower, more displacement, and costs less.......

Hmmm........ No brainer to me.
 
sl7vk said:
Dolmar 7900 Dry weight 13.6 lbs
Stihl 361 Dry weight 12.3 lbs.

1.3 pounds in this case buys you 20 extra cc, 2 extra horses, and the ability to turn a 32 inch bar if you'd like. And I imagine that they are right about the same price.

It is lighter then the 575xp, has more horesepower, more displacement, and costs less.......

Hmmm........ No brainer to me.

Yep, sorry about that. My specs were to a specialized 7900 "ventilation" saw. My bad.

I agree that another 1.3 pounds isn't much, but I consider 12.3 moving towards the edge of a 'light" saw. I really have no idea on pricing.
 
Jags said:
sl7vk said:
Dolmar 7900 Dry weight 13.6 lbs
Stihl 361 Dry weight 12.3 lbs.

1.3 pounds in this case buys you 20 extra cc, 2 extra horses, and the ability to turn a 32 inch bar if you'd like. And I imagine that they are right about the same price.

It is lighter then the 575xp, has more horesepower, more displacement, and costs less.......

Hmmm........ No brainer to me.

Yep, sorry about that. My specs were to a specialized 7900 "ventilation" saw. My bad.

I agree that another 1.3 pounds isn't much, but I consider 12.3 moving towards the edge of a 'light" saw. I really have no idea on pricing.

One can get the 7900 for around $679

http://www.amickssuperstore.com/Dolmar_Chainsaws_s/163.htm
 
Somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison, but I have a Dolmar 7900, and a 36cc Pull-on consumer grade saw... While I feel I've improved the Pull-on incredibly by going to a 12" bar on it, I'm finding that more and more, I'm actually tending to use the Dolmar as my "Go-To" saw, even for light work... It's a little heavier, but it's so much smoother that I find it less tiring to swing the Dolmar with a 20" bar, than it is to use the Pull-on with the 12" bar, and even when cutting up 2" - 6" limbs the extra power is really nice - less kicking because the saw cuts through faster than it can grab...

I'm finding the Pull-on is my choice only if I'm working in really brushy stuff where the shorter bar offers a manuverability advantage.

I'll admit I haven't tried the Husky / Stihl equivalents, but IMHO the 7900 is a great "one saw" machine - with the 20" bar it's good for general cutting, and if you need to cut big, it will swing a big bar - I've used my 28" barr with it, on maple doing a full depth bore cut, the engine didn't even slow down.

At the same time, If I was looking for a second saw for lighter work, I'd definitely say the Dolmar 5100 is worth a hard look... IMHO Dolmars are the unsung hero of the saw world, fewer dealers, but easy to service, and you can get more saw for your money than you can with H/S...

Gooserider
 
goose, I am about to find out.
After 15 years of 55 cc maximum, I bought a 'dolkita' hybrid 6401 with 7900 top end on the AS site and will try it out this weekend.
Looking between 046 and the Dolmar. I think the 046 is a better working saw for the pros, but I won't wear either one out, and the dolmar won out just to be different. Plus, it is badged in makita green and 6401 label, will be a fun 'sleeper'.

I have a 35 cc echo, an 026, 280 just wasn't doing the job, now this. But I really would not want to do much limbing with the tiny echo or the dolmar, nor give up the 026.

So, to OP, I would figure on the two saw plan: a small 180 is pretty cheap, or 260/5100/346 lightweight good saw. and eventually, a bigger one.

kcj
 
Well, I'll admit I made the big jump in going from the homeowner grade Pull-on, to the big pro-grade Dolmar, but I think you'll be wondering what took you so long...

What I find is that I like the Dolmar better for cutting in all but the worst brushy stuff because I don't have to bend over as much. With the Pull-on, once the tree is on the ground, to cut it I have to bend way over in order to reach the wood, so even though the saw is light, I'm in an uncomfortable position for a long time. With the Dolmar and a 20" bar, I can stand nearly upright and cut with the tip and end third of the bar without bending over, and with great feel for how close to the ground I'm getting because comfortable full extension with the saw about 15-30* out in front of me is about an inch or two off the ground.

In addition it's an incredibly smooth running saw, it shakes more at idle than it does at full bore - I joke that it's a good thing it makes noise, otherwise you couldn't tell it was running...

So I have a little more weight, but its in a less stressful position, and it doesn't buzz me as much, both of which are a real help in making the job comfortable.

Gooserider
 
I run 20 inch on my 026 just for the reasons youmentioned. It is way underpowered in wood over about 12 inches, but it can work big wood just with a careful light touch. I still like the 20 bar best. For limbing I can reach a few more cuts before moving my feet plant, so it is faster, safer and easier.
I don't cut anywhere near the ground though.

Basically I will use the Dolmar for bucking only in my situation because I have other limbers, but given the choice of Poulan or Dolmar, I would do what you are doing.

k
 
OK, my 2c.

The 7900 is a great saw. I love mine. But it is not a "light" saw, and not an all-around saw if all-around means limbing and <8" stuff. For those uses, it's overkill. The attached picture is of the setup used for felling and later for limbing some spruce trees a couple months ago, after my starter rope broke on my little limbing saw. Chest-high or head-high limbing with the 7900/28" setup left my shoulders and chest hurting for days. Now with the 20" bar working the firewood pile, it is much easier. But if you're going to be carrying it around, rather than cutting in one place, the added weight will add up over the course of an afternoon or weekend.

For the one-saw guy, a Husqvarna 357xp/Stihl MS361 is a good setup for all-around use. Run a 16" bar for most stuff, and have a 24" with skip chain for the big stuff. That should do ya. It won't pull like an 70cc saw with 2hp more and may take a little longer to get the work done, but it'll be far more nimble, lighter, and will still get the job done.
 

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I have to admit I don't have, and haven't tried, a small size pro-grade so maybe there's a bigger difference there than there is between my Pull-on and my Dolmar. I just know that I don't feel a big difference between them in use... I'm not a "jock" though I'm also not in bad shape, but if I grab each saw by the wrap handle and heft one in each hand, I can barely feel a difference. If I try doing the one-arm straight out lift, I can barely hold up the Dolmar, the Pull-on is easier, but not a lot.

Your message finally got me to do something I've been meaning to do for a while, and actually go out with a scale, and see what the saws weighed in at...

For both saws, empty tanks, but with a bar and chain, (20" on the Dolmar, and 12" on the Pull-on) and with the bar guards on, I got 19 lbs for the Dolmar, and 13.4 lbs for the Pull-on. Since the Dolmar has bigger tanks it probably gains a little more in "ready to go" mode, call it a 6lb difference. I was actually surprised it was that much, I'd been guessing more on the order of about a 3 pound difference.

So I'd agree the Dolmar isn't light, except by the "for it's class" standard - however I'd be more inclined to say it's a middleweight than a heavyweight... Remember that Dolmar makes three saws on the same chassis, a 64cc, 72cc, and 79cc - compared to the H & S models in those ranges, the 64cc is heavy, the 72cc is about average, and the 7900 is really light when compared to the competition in each size.

Note also that while I have a 28" bar, it is NOT what I normally use on the saw - my everyday bar is a 20" and I only put the 28" on if I'm going to be felling or bucking a log that NEEDS it. The one time I used the 28" setup it was definitely a different animal that was very hefty, and one I would not want to use for light cutting.

But with the 20" bar, it's very reasonable, and I think it's a case of the size compensating for the added weight. Because of the extra 6" of bar, and the longer powerhead, I didn't need to lift the saw as high, or reach out as far to make a cut, and often could brace the handle or wrap bar against a leg or hip in order to get a "3 point stance" which gives added stability and takes some of the weight. With the Pull-on I'd have to lift the saw higher and reach out further, so that even though the saw is lighter, I'm having to work harder to hold it where I'm cutting...

I also found that while from the standpoint of getting the job done, the big saw is overkill, there is a difference in how fast the saw can make a cut - the Dolmar revs up to cutting speed faster, and cuts faster - thus a 2" branch that might take 5-10 seconds to cut with the Pull-on only takes 3-6 seconds with the Dolmar - not a huge difference, but again a question of how long do you have to hold the weight in working position as opposed to idle position - it adds up.

Vibration is mentioned as a major fatigue factor - When I finish a tank of gas with the Dolmar, my hands feel fine. After a tank with the Pull-on, they feel "buzzy" for the next half hour or so...

The only place where I find the Pull-on is a clear winner is in heavy brush, or limbing where there are lots of little branches that you have to work through. In that case the overall shorter saw has the advantage because of it's greater manuverablility.

With all of that said, I do agree with CU that the 7900 is much more saw than you need for smallish - say 16-18" or less - stuff. If I didn't have the occasional monster logs to deal with, I'd probably have chosen the 5100, which I think might be a better all-round saw IF you don't get the big stuff, or have a larger backup saw... If the Pull-on ever dies on me completely, the 5100 would be on my short list for a replacement, or possibly one of the other 40-50cc range pro-grade saws. If I had that and the money for a 3rd saw, I'd then look at an ultra light for limbing and the like, but that would definitely be a luxury item, not an essential.

Gooserider
 
Iam running a one saw set up ms460 with 28 and 20 in bar that works good
 
Thanks to all the folks that responded! Based on all the input the 361 jumped right back out in front because...... I have seen what some mentioned, the "box" store tendancy with Husky. Here we have one dealer, and they are a good dealer, but within 25 miles I have a choice of no less than 6 Stihl dealers to choose from. I like the idea of one saw does it all if needed, but the smaller saws are much easier on these old bones when it comes to limbing and bucking up the smaller rounds. As some pointed out, I could run a 16 inch bar for the small stuff and the 25 inch bar for stumping the big stuff. I don't think it is possible to have too many saws:) I finaly finished spiffing up the wood shed tonight, now all I have to do is get those 16 cords in there. I see a lot of folks are hooked on the "D" saws. Can't say I've ever seen one, and don't know of any dealers around here, but then I could be all wet on this as there may be one within spittin distance. I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the welcome and all the information, much appreciated.

Coug
 
Dolmar has a dealer locator on their website, but my experience with it was mixed. Many of the "dealers" listed weren't stocking saws, and there were some where it rapidly became clear that I knew the line better than they did... It seems one of the major wholesalers had a typo in their catalog, so if I called a dealer and he gave me certain info, I knew that he was going through the wholesaler rather than direct from Dolmar, and that they didn't know the product well enough to spot the mistake...

There were a few dealers that did clearly know the line, but weren't price competitive with some of the online shops, so I went that way... Unfortunately Dolmar has supposedly clamped down on mailorder sales, although I've heard rumors that there are still shops that can make deals...

Gooserider
 
I bought a dolmar from the AS website. Post a wanted ad there and you can find them. I can pm you the shop I bought from .several people there get he home depot rental 6401 and put big bore top ends on . If you can tolerate the green makita plastics.
also many good 046 on there, comparable to the dolmar but quite heavyier than I think what you described you wanted.
makita 6401 (64 cc, comparable to the 361) are I think under $300 on the ebay (new) regularly. run a while, put on the 79 cc big bore later if desired. At 64 cc I'd say heavy for the power. At 79, different game.
parts are available online from baileys, amicks, cuttin edge and others. dolmar jsut is tight on inet sales of new saws.
but, ultimately parts and service are hard to find if you don't do some mechanical work yourself. If you need dropoff service, I'd go with stihl or husky.

but I'd still consider two saws: a tiny 180 and 361 or 460 would be nice.

k
 
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