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Iron Horse electric splitter amp. rating (continuous or peak?)

Post in 'The Gear' started by Jay H, Jan 3, 2007.

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  1. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

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    I just bought a supposedly 3HP 6 Ton Iron Horse electric splitter which has an input of 19.5 Amps. It comes with a 20ft 14-gauge standard 3-pin plug.

    I have an older house with the old Push Pull circuit breakers and the one outside GFCI outlet has a 15amp breaker on it. I know exactly which outlets are wired to it and I can shut them off when I need to use it, but will I be setting off the breaker with the Iron Horse? Is the splitter rated for continuous 19.5amps or is that a peak power?

    Alternatively, I do have a couple of 20Amp breakers installed, one going to my washing machine/dryer (gas) and a couple others, but that would mean I will either have to split inside my house or use a 100ft 12gauge/3 extension cord. I don't know if that is recommended to connect a 20ft 14 gauge cord to a 100ft 12 gauge extension cord just to use a 20amp breaker.

    There is a possibility I can run the 20ft cord that the splitter has out the basement window above my dryer which is on a 20amp breaker but baring that solution, I'm either going to

    1)Run it on the 15amp breaker, hope for the best
    2)Run a new 20amp line out to an external GFCI outlet
    3)Use my 12 gauge 100ft extension cord

    Jay

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  2. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    1 chances are you will trip the15 amp breaker but it could work the 19.2 amps might be start up and runn around 13/14 amps running

    #2 is your best solution a good idea anyways should you use skill saws or any other heavy draw tool

    #3 the 12 wire cord should work and a temporary solution till you complete your # 2 suggestion. 12 to 14 wire is ok

    What I have done with my splitter, 10 gage from 20 amp plug, 100 feet another, 100 ft of 12 gage my splitter works 200' away
  3. wahoowad

    wahoowad Minister of Fire

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    Can you see what guage wire is on your outside 15 amp breaker? You can replace that 15 amp with a 20 amp if you are running 12 guage wire.
  4. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

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    I will have to take a look, it's in a metal conduit and then is buried underground. I'll see if I can take a look where it is. Frankly, if I have to start replacing wires, I'd rather replace another external outlet which is in a better location for the splitter to be. I have an outlet by my woodpile but it is old. It's not even a three prong outlet and certainly not a GFCI. But it's in the back of my house and closer to my woodpile than my current 15amp GFCI which on a lightpole by my driveway in the front of my house.

    Thanks all!

    Jay
  5. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    I think your on to something here Jay. If this is gonna be a frequently used tool, then by all means do it right. You will not be sorry. 12 ga wire, going to an external (outside) 20 amp box would be the way to go. Locate it right, and you will be a happy camper. Elk raised a very good point also, look at the additional uses that this new outlet may provide for you. Don't push the capacity of old wiring. Just my .02.
  6. triptester

    triptester Feeling the Heat

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    To start ,3 hp. cannot be sustained for more than a faction of a second with a 110 circuit. To get 3 hp. you need a 220 circuit minimum. I would try the splitter on your most convenient outlet first ,if the motor starts easily and runs cool without blowing a breaker you are good to go. If not you will have to try a 20 amp circuit . If the 20 amp circuit does not handle the motor you will have to check to see if the motor is dual voltage if it is you may have to switch to 220 volts which will handle 3 hp. with no problem.
  7. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Not disagreeing with ya, but the startup is not the only problem to look at. This is a different application than say an air compressor or something. This motors hardest work out will most likely be when he begins pushing into a difficult log. A typical motor start up (max draw) will last somewhere shy of a couple of seconds. In the splitter config, it may last several seconds (till the log or splitter gives up). But to your point, if this splitter IS capable of 220 and you ARE considering rewiring a new outlet, 220 would be the way to go.

    Amp Draw of Electric Motors (generally speaking) This is industrial ratings. (remember when the air compressor industry got nailed for mis-guided hp ratings of their motors?)

    HP /120V /220V
    1/4 hp./ 6 amp./ 3 amp.
    1/3 hp. /7 amp./ 3½ amp.
    1/2 hp./ 10 amp./ 5 amp.
    3/4 hp. /14 amp. /7 amp.
    1 hp. /16 amp. /8 amp.
    1½ hp./ 20 amp. /10 amp.
    2 hp. /24 amp./ 12 amp.
    3 hp./ 34 amp. /17 amp.
    5 hp./ 56 amp./ 28 amp.
  8. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    Jags hit it right on the current draw for motors although the #s can vary a bit based on RPM service factor etc.
    never known of a 3hp with those #s (19.5 amps)
    A baldor at 1725rpm is 32amp FLA.....3450rpm is 29amp FLA Both #s are at 120 volts double the volts = half the amps.
    The 3 hp are you sure that's not the pump HP? I've been out of fluid power for a couple of years but I can check a formula tommorrow at work.

    anyway regarding the current rating for extension cords if you are gonna be drawing almost 20 amps you should be some where around 8 awg for about 90 feet.
    now if you ran #12 thhn inside conduit to near the point of use the cord can be substantially smaller gauge. It all has to do with voltage drop and the ability for the conductors to disperse the heat generated by the current flow through them.
  9. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    some motors are dual rated like mine 2hp when wired to 220
    1.5 when wired to to 110
    I used that Iron horse 6 ton splitter it was 200' away from the plug and worked fine
    I can tell youit is not a 3hp motor on 110 voltage
    Possibly 1.5 or 2.0 hp but no way was mine 3hp

    I pluged in my 100' 12 wire extention cord into a 20 amp plug and curciut and split away. I split a cord it worked fine.

    I have used 4 electric splitters the 4 ton Roybi. 6 ton Iron Horse, 6 ton DR splitter and my 16 ton Ram splitter all have worked 200 ' away from the plug
    the first 100' is 10 gage wire the next 100' is 12 gage wire my 16 ton splitter has split over 10 cords by now has a marathon moter that cost more that the entire Iron horse
    splitter and pushed 250% more than the Iron horse. Run your 12gage extention cord from your 20 amp plug andd start splitting away then locate a separate 20 curcuit and plug later
  10. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

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    Doing a little inquisitive work last night, The conduit that goes to my outside GFCI outlet by my driveway is 12 gauge but is on a 15amp pushmatic breaker. I have a spare 20amp pushmatic breaker that was used for a pool filter which is no longer here so I can and will swap out the 20amp breaker to where the 15amp circuit is to my outside GFCI. I know the same circuit is wired to a GFCI outlet in my bathroom and an outlet in my living room which is driving my home theater, but I am not using those on a regular basis and not watching TV when I'm outside splitting wood so I should be OK. Then I'll have a 20amp circuit running on 12gauge wire and I wont even need an extension cord for the Iron Horse...

    Jay
  11. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    Can you tell me what exactly the nameplate on that motor says?

    There is a thing called voltage drop which with the average home owner is not a problem...
    If the voltage drop is over 5% then that a/c motor loses torque and has to work harder causing it to fail quicker, draw more current, trip breakers, etc.
    rough formula here (can't remember without my books)


    ........................ 2 X length of run X current draw X resistance of wire used per thousand feet
    voltage drop = -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    .....................................................................1000



    here's an example ..........................2 X 200' X 19.5 X 1.94 (i think for # 12)
    ....................................................------------------------------------------------ = 15.132 volts
    ...............................................................................1000


    This is over the (nearly twice the allowed) voltage drop of 5%

    Just an FYI here for the average homeowner.... your breakers may not trip but at the least your motor ain't putting out the power that you are requiring..


    What brand of panel do you have? Pushmatic I'm not familiar with......
  12. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

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    Hi GVA, unfortunately, I'm at my parents right now (my PC is there) and my Iron Horse is at home, howewer I have decided to wire a dedicated 20amp circuit to an outside GFCI outlet rather than tinker with the current wiring. I have a GFCI breaker in the circuit panel but since GFCI outlets aren't that much more than non I bought some 12gauge outside conduit and a 20A GFCI outlet to wire in a weatherproof box. Then I'll have a dedicated outside outlet.

    Pushmatic is older style breaker, the company is called ITE but is now owned by Siemens, I didn't see any new breakers at the local Lowes but I wasn't really looking hard and I know I can get new breakers on the internet and at some more specialized electrical warehouses. However, I tested the GFCI breaker and I can say that it at least trips the breaker when I hit the "test" button. I didn't get my AC Voltmeter though and the circuit is just terminated as the breaker was for a pool filter that is no longer in use.

    Once I install the dedicated line, I wont even need an extension cord to run the splitter. I will need it my electric Makita UC4000 chainsaw but that is only listed at 13amps.

    Jay
  13. ecfinn

    ecfinn New Member

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    Jay,

    I've got a Pushmatic breaker panel as well, and I'm planning to replace it ASAP. From what I've heard they are problematic at best and when they get older they can actually fail to trip when expected. You can buy replacement breakers that are reconditioned off the internet but I don't believe anyone makes truly new pushmatic breakers anymore. At least that was my understanding.

    Eric
  14. Jay H

    Jay H New Member

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    Hi Eric, yeah I am putting a new panel in my list of things to do. I've only lived in my house for 1 year and I've already done some big improvements to my bathroom and kitchen and unfinished basement. But the electrical is not high on the priority list. I've love to tear out all the wiring and replace it all, I don't know who did the wiring but I think it must be Ronzoni because the wiring in my basement is spaghetti!! It is so f'king hard to trace out which lines are on which breaker because there are wires and pipes and insanity going on in the ceiling. I am currently making a chart of which outlet and which lights are on which breaker but I can see this is going to be a long project.

    My best improvement that I did was my wood stove, hands down. It was the one of the things I was looking for when I bought the place....how well will a wood stove go in and I'm happy that my stove really compliments my house very well.

    Jay
  15. wahoowad

    wahoowad Minister of Fire

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    Every homeowner should get one free head jarring slap they can administer to the previous "handyman" owner of the house.
  16. jjbaer

    jjbaer New Member

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    Hi,

    1 HP equals about 746 watts so 3 HP equals about 2,238 watts. Using 120 volts nominal, this means you draw 18.7 amps at 120 volts to get 2,238 watts which is 3 HP. BUT....this assumes 100% of all watttge is converted into horsepower at the motor. Since motors aren't 100% efficient, you draw even more than 18.7 amps. If the motor is about 90% efficient, then you're really drawing about 20.7 amps to get 3HP output. You draw even more amps as the motor efficiency decreases further.

    Note I've left out power factors and other things but your 19 amp for 3HP is in the ballpark when it's running. Also, starting this motor can require much more than the 19 amps but circuits are built to tolerate higher instantaneous current draws for short durations without tripping a breaker.
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